For those of you on the fence: Gatorman Witch Doctor w/ Dygmies

[Gython]

Ran the Gatorman Witch Doctor with 10 Dygmies in a 35 pt. tournament yesterday against Cryx and all I can say is holy baby Jesus! For various reason's Cryx has ALWAYS given me the MOST trouble of all factions. The witch Doctor granting the dygmies the undead quality was a god send & completely shut down his army. The cryx player was planning to use the kills he gained from me to generate more undead models to stuff down my throat via his necrosurgeon. Thankfully the dygmies being undead didn't allow him this tactic and I was ultimately able to use my far strike'd bomber to get close enough and throw two barrels at his zero camping Scaverous and win by caster kill.

Yes the Champ hero is nasty in melee and provides a decent CMD 10 check, but when playing vs. cryx I HIGHLY recommend using the Gatorman Witch Doctor instead to give your units the undead quality (and the odd magical attack when needed)!

[EvilFuzzyDoom]

When the mini comes out I plan to use him in pMadrak beast lists to extend my effective Control range anyway...

[Gython]

When the mini comes out I plan to use him in pMadrak beast lists to extend my effective Control range anyway...

I belive that aspect ONLY applies to Blindwater beasts and not other factions.

[drachenfels]

well with that said lets pose the question... in a standard SR2012 tournament with a healthy diversified meta (cryx at a max 25% saturation) would you include him/this combination in neither, one or both lists??

ie - is it good, or just good against cryx?

[Gython]

ie - is it good, or just good against cryx?

It's good against everything and here's why: You can STILL fail a CMD 10 roll, but with being undead, ANY non-fearless unit will be sticking around 'till THE LAST MAN!

[drachenfels]

It's good against everything and here's why: You can STILL fail a CMD 10 roll, but with being undead, ANY non-fearless unit will be sticking around 'till THE LAST MAN!

but is the reach weaponmaster thresher worth the trade for the chance of failing a Ld10 test? what about if champs are your second unit?

[Gython]

but is the reach weaponmaster thresher worth the trade for the chance of failing a Ld10 test? what about if champs are your second unit?

Probably not then as you have another reason (champs bonus). BUT if you have NO champs and 1+ non-fearless units, then hellllll yes!

[EvilFuzzyDoom]

I belive that aspect ONLY applies to Blindwater beasts and not other factions.

Aw damnit. You're right and it is friendly Faction only. Scrap that idea then.

[hatchet]

worst comes to worst, sacrificial strike with our ARM 15 KWs could really help as a last ditch effort kind of deal.

[drachenfels]

worst comes to worst, sacrificial strike with our ARM 15 KWs could really help as a last ditch effort kind of deal.

if i recall sac strike is faction model only as well...

[PG_machine007]

if i recall sac strike is faction model only as well...

Correct. Unless you take a couple of gobbers to use it, I don't see much use in it.

The only real benefit we get from the witch doctor is Undead, and I find that way too situational to be 3pts when we have many other options to fill.

[Goris]

It has been worked out so far that point for point, bone grinders are the best use. So, in Calandra lists, e might work. You are already taking the Hero for CMD checks and this simply eliminates them. Something to think about...

[Digestive]

It has been worked out so far that point for point, bone grinders are the best use. So, in Calandra lists, e might work. You are already taking the Hero for CMD checks and this simply eliminates them. Something to think about...

Yeah, both Calandra and Grim have spells which could really benefit from 2" more range.

[ConejitoD]

I would like to use Wich Doctor in a Clandra list, because she llikes burrowers, Bone grinders and lesser warlocks. Beeing able to give undead to the burrowers or sacrifice a grinder and beeing able to force Skarath or Brine outside their warlocks control area (and 17' threat range from a rushed Brine is just awesome) makes him more interesting than the Hero, but if I'm not planing to use bone grinders I will keep the Chamion Hero anyways and take the risk of failing CMD10 check, because he is way better than the doctor by himself (morover iif you do have some damage buff).

[PG_thegreatblah]

Giving them undead to deny souls, snacking, etc is about the only reason to ever field the witch doctor. If you know you're facing Cryx or Protectorate he might be a good idea. Otherwise, the Champ Hero is you 'huckleberry'

[Goris]

Don't forget fearless. Having digmies resolute and steadfast when they hit things like the Deathjack or Tartarsauce is very usefull. Also, an auto hitting pow 14 is not to be ignored. He warrants some attention in some lists. We run minions well so it's something to think about once he's out.

[FranzGrenstein]

Yeah, I got really happy when I read the witchdoctor at Warmachine Weekend.

I think it will really help a trolls. It also helps with darik wraith and the all living models are -2 str carp.

[PG_thegreatblah]

I think it's more cornercase though. The Hero is in most cases a better choice. In a specialized list however, the witch docter has potential.

[FranzGrenstein]

Cornercase maybe, I took that off the top of my head because others cited other uses.

You can say this the doc is a kick in the junk for Cryx, I think troll kind of have a problem with them, sac strike on the hag that says no tuff, hey BLT attack that guy, you can't fuel yourself with our souls.

That seems pretty good.

Oh yeah, I don't have to roll freak out dice, and my freaked out troops imediatly(sp) rally.

[The Happy Anarchist]

My Calandra list has Dygmies, Nyss and Bonegrinders. Witch Doctor is going there so fast your face will explode. Once he sacs a bonegrinder to it anyway.

My Grim list is the other big consideration, which has Nyss when I am not fielding Calandra and Bonegrinders frequently show up, as well as Boomhowlers having a permanent seat at the table. Pow 16 sac strikes for the win!

[MaxKool]

Ran the Gatorman Witch Doctor with 10 Dygmies in a 35 pt. tournament yesterday against Cryx and all I can say is holy baby Jesus! For various reason's Cryx has ALWAYS given me the MOST trouble of all factions. The witch Doctor granting the dygmies the undead quality was a god send & completely shut down his army. The cryx player was planning to use the kills he gained from me to generate more undead models to stuff down my throat via his necrosurgeon. Thankfully the dygmies being undead didn't allow him this tactic and I was ultimately able to use my far strike'd bomber to get close enough and throw two barrels at his zero camping Scaverous and win by caster kill.

Yes the Champ hero is nasty in melee and provides a decent CMD 10 check, but when playing vs. cryx I HIGHLY recommend using the Gatorman Witch Doctor instead to give your units the undead quality (and the odd magical attack when needed)!

Being undead wont stop the dygmies from producing corpse tokens and that's what the sugeons uses for making more mcthralls. All being undead does is stop souls and terror...
Cryx is my other army and my favorite unit is my self replenishing mcthralls....
Still not bad I guess but being fearless isn't worth a point premium I find in a faction strapped for points....

[hmk17]

Being undead wont stop the dygmies from producing corpse tokens and that's what the sugeons uses for making more mcthralls. All being undead does is stop souls and terror...
Cryx is my other army and my favorite unit is my self replenishing mcthralls....
Still not bad I guess but being fearless isn't worth a point premium I find in a faction strapped for points....

Actually it does work, unless I am missing some new errata. Body Snatcher only works on McThralls and Living models to generate corpse tokens.

[vash1318]

way I look at it, I don't even take the cryx advantage into account....

CMD 10 is worse than fearless so unless my champ hero is doing work in combat in the list he is in, the Witch doctor wins out easy.

Calandra's dygmies get teh Witch doc

E Madrak's dygmies get the champ hero because i use the champ hero for a lot more than just command checks in that list.

Grim's dygmies, Witch Doc

and so on, in most cases i think one should use the witch doctor over the hero, its really only Epic madrak that is still using him, and with more testing that might not last long.

[PG_thegreatblah]

I just don't see it. The only time the witch Dr. is essential over the hero is if ;

1) You need the undead advantage more than CMD 10 or to prevent soul taking.
2) You bring another minion unit to use as fodder for the witch docter.


If those conditions aren't met, in my opinion, the Hero is a better choice.

[Greggle]

I think with people who field Nyss and Dygmies, the Witch Doctor is a great option, but in most cases I'd rather take the Champ Hero.

[TheHydrogenator]

Undead is honestly better then the fearless. If you look at the list of abilities in WM/H that trigger off living its crazy. Being undead shuts down that, soul collection, all sorts of different recursion abilities etc. I can't wait to start playing him for the undead ability

[The Happy Anarchist]

I for one would rarely bring the Witch Doctor unless I was bringing at a bare minimum two of the following. Dygmies, Bonegrinders, Nyss, Gators, Boomhowlers - possibly Slaughterhousers, but I haven't actually gotten to try them out yet.