Am I going to regret this? Shae with Rovers, 50 points

[PG_vytzka]

Alright, I finally got my bunch of plastic jack kits and it's time to put up or shut up about Rovers. To this end I have built the following list to play sometime this week, hopefully.

A Pirate's Life, T4

Captain Phinneus Shae (-6)
- Nomad (6)
- Nomad (6)
- Rover (8)
- Rover (8)

Commodore Cannon & Crew (4)

Lady Aiyana & Master Holt (4)

Press Gangers x10 (6)

Sea Dog Crew x6 (10)
- Rifleman x3
- Mr. Walls

Rockbottom (1)
Grogspar (1)
Doc (1)
First Mate Hawk (1)



Ouch... lack of Meg and the Buccaneer is probably going to bite me in the *** but that was the least invasive change I could make to avoid messing up stuff that already works.

The plan is as usual, put a wall of armor (including the vaunted ARM 20) and Tough infantry up in their faces and hopefully take some potshots with those awesome Rover cannons? Or whatever?

[MagnustheJust]

Looks solid Vytzka... I really think the 4 heavies combined with Shae's movement shenanigans will really set folks off to the defensive to deal with them.

Now get out there and earn you blood & coin and wenches & mead!!

[PG_vytzka]

Man, **** the Rovers. I played against Khador with eIrusk and more Manowar than you can possibly imagine and yeah sure I was way out of shape and made dumb mistakes but I was constantly thinking what I would have done if I had a Mangler and a Mariner instead.

I'm giving them more chances but I should pretty much be canonised as a saint for this.

[NEoJoe]

Man, **** the Rovers. I played against Khador with eIrusk and more Manowar than you can possibly imagine and yeah sure I was way out of shape and made dumb mistakes but I was constantly thinking what I would have done if I had a Mangler and a Mariner instead.

I'm giving them more chances but I should pretty much be canonised as a saint for this.

Please keep it up. I'm actually following these progress reports you might make. Let those words sink in and guilt the hell out of you.

And come on, you know you need, like, thirty games before you really know what it can do.

Search your feelings. You know this to be true.

[PG_vytzka]

Thirty games? I'm not wasting half a year on this thing

[Warcaster Feiss]

I'm keen to see how you get on with the Rover, particularly with a Warcaster without an ARM buff, since on paper that seems to be the Rover's main selling point (to my eyes at least).

I'd also be keen to see how anyone gets on playing the Rover with either Damiano or Broadsides Bart, since both have access to a +3 ARM buff (albeit one being a Feat). My gut feel is that a Nomad or Mangler will probably be a better first port of call for Damiano, since the Buckler arm / Punching Spike will benefit from the +3 STR part of Damiano's Feat turning it into actually a half-way decent melee weapon (whereas the Rover's Point-blank gun shot would not).

With that said, the ranged attack on the Rover has to be of some value for him to be worth taking over a Nomad surely? Without the ranged attack, both a Rover and a Nomad have a Power 17 attack, a Power 14 attack (I'm going to ignore the Rover's shield, since barring infantry, it's not going to be dinging up the heavies your heavies should be killing), but the Rover loses out on threat range (lack of Reach) and gains essentially just +1 ARM, which doesn't seem good value for 2pts

[PG_vytzka]

The thing about the Rover is, I see no point in using it as someone's exclusive jack because it's, well, not very good at anything. I can see the case for MacBain with Failsafe but lack of Reach can still bite you in the *** when time comes for Jackhammer shenanigans. So with guys like Damiano and Ashlynn I will take something more... well... proactive? instead. Not to mention that both get great character jacks for that purpose ^^

Now, I can see the use of Rover with guys who actually want multiple jacks. Shae in particular specialises in delivering a wall of iron in your face. So, having parts of that wall be tougher and have opportunity ranged attacks is not terrible on paper. Bart can also be alright but I really see Bart as more of a Broadsides and, as of now, Deadweight guy than a Batten Down the Hatches guy, and Rover largely fails at Broadsides with a RAT 5 non-AoE attack. It's better than nothing, but it is way worse than a Mariner while still having largely the same melee capability provided you get the first strike (for which you have the feat).

Magnus the Traitor is also a possibility but once I've taken everything I want and everything that is actually good with him instead of a leftover Temper Metal target - Mangler for Iron Aggression and if I don't take something for Snipe specifically (Mule or Long Gunners) I'll find something to use it on, at the least the ubiquitous Rengades, and Wrong Eye & friends to put Spiny Growth on my stuff - I don't really have a lot points left over to shoe a Rover in.

As I said. The freaking thing doesn't have a role. +1 armor while it has the arm is not a role.

Thus, Shae. Except the whole unhappy thing for the time being So, stay tuned if you care?

[MagnustheJust]

So, stay tuned if you care?

Aww... Vytzka, do you need a hug? Here -

[NEoJoe]

As I said. The freaking thing doesn't have a role. +1 armor while it has the arm is not a role.

Thus, Shae. Except the whole unhappy thing for the time being So, stay tuned if you care?

I want to know, is the six point pricetag the only reason anyone uses the Nomad? I mean, is that itself a role? I figure if it's not, then it's role is "beat on things" but I completely understand that I could have that wrong. If, however, that is its role, than why isn't the Rover's role "beat on things and have some shooting options"? I get that it doesn't have reach, but I've played Jacks without reach and beat things up with them.

I'm not trying to argue, just pick your brain. I'm not used to Mercs yet and I know you and the other folks around here are. I've played Jacks with stats very similar to the Rover, which is why I think it looks good. But I get that that may only be in the Non-Merc vacuum in my head.

Also, staying tuned

[PG_vytzka]

Okay Reach is...

Reach is kind of like sex. When you've never had it, you don't miss it, but once you get used to it it becomes awfully hard to manage.

Reach is a very big deal on jacks. You can use it to attack things across obstacles without having to go over them (we don't really have much in the way of Pathfinder for jacks in Mercenaries). You can use it to attack through a gap between other models. It extends your threat range and makes ganging up on a powerful enemy heavy more convenient.

The Nomad... is a cheap beatstick, yeah. It's not exceptionally beatsticky except that it's stuck in a faction that doesn't really get more beatsticky than that if you're not a dwarf. So it kind of is after all. Before speed buffs it outranges many enemy jacks due to SPD 5 with Reach and oh my God do we have our own speed buffs. It has very decent armor and boxes, and it's cheap. It is so cheap that you can take two Nomads for barely a bit more than an actually good faction jack.

Shae is the master of Nomads. He can make all jacks charge at +2 SPD for fixed costs. No matter if I have two, three or five Nomads I only pay three focus for a charge for them all. Stats of a single Nomad are less important in this case because it's never just one Nomad against one enemy jack - it's two or sometimes three. And if they destroy a Nomad big deal - I still have some left.

I think this might not be so much the Rover sucking in this particular case than me realising Reach is more necessary for Shae's jacks than I thought...

[PG_Norton]

I have to agree. I would rather two talons than one rover in a shae list. The Rover for me fits the roll when I need an all rounder. The marianer and mule are better suited for when you need a range jack. Nomads and manglers are for melee only, obviously. For me the Rover is the best Jack when you need to do both and when Rocinante is not available.

[MagnustheJust]

Okay Reach is...

Reach is kind of like sex. When you've never had it, you don't miss it, but once you get used to it it becomes awfully hard to manage.

{insert hysterical fit of laughter, followed by sound of chair breaking... Followed by even more laughter}

[PG_Draxos]

{insert hysterical fit of laughter, followed by sound of chair breaking... Followed by even more laughter}

Yeah me too

[Choco]

The other thing to think about when you think about reach is that it isn't always about threat range, but the area that the model now threatens/controls when you need to clog a gap or protect another model from charges. You have something like 6ish" from one side to the other with a Nomad and 4ish" with the Rover. Yes, the threat range on a charge is important too, but that's another way to look at your jacks.