Severe dissapointment in regards to Quality Control.

[FearMeMortals]

First of all, I love WM&H. I'm writing this as more of a feedback to PP and for other players to share experiences. I'm not writing it to rage at PP and tell them all that their mother's did a horrible job raising them.

Quality control is a huge issue. Every single player I know has had boxes / blisters arrive either missing parts or containing damaged / deformed parts. Very occasionally they'll even contain additional unintended parts! I know that many players are becoming increasingly frustrated by this. I am a little bit, but not so much. Generally I try to be relaxed about it, write PP an email asking for replacement parts and then wait. This does mean that I order an item in to the shop, wait a few weeks for that. Then I get it home all excited and crack it open, write PP an email and then wait a few weeks for the part.

While I think the levels of poor QC PP have been giving to their customers especially over the past 12 months is not up to the standard we would expect as paying consumers, these things do happen (my thought is that they happen a bit too often though).

However the real reason I'm writing this, and this really gets my goat, is that half the time when I write to PP to report missing or defective components I don't even get a response. There are models I've bought over 12 months ago that I never received replacement parts for despite writing to PP and then following up my emails after a reasonable period of time when I've not received a response. What's triggered this is that I recently bought 4 blisters of models and 2 of them came with missing parts. I wrote to PP and have yet again been ignored.

I think you've made a wonderful game guys, and I think you've got a great team of people working on both the rules and creating fantastic models to bring those rules to life. However your quality control and your customer service are not up to standard. I would really like to see improvements in this area over the next few months.

Thanks for reading, and apologies if this is in the wrong forum.

FMM

[Lucifig]

I think you're talking about two different things. Quality control versus customer service.

I can say, I have honestly bought thousands of dollars worth of Privateer Press miniatures, hundreds of different models...and I've had exactly one that was miscast (Goreshade didn't have his sword)...So I think, personally, that their QC is pretty damn good.

In my case, they sent me a new Goreshade (just the model, not the whole blister, which was weird) in a reasonably timely fashion. It did take a couple of calls (the emails did not help), but all in all, it wasn't too horrible. Granted I've had better CS experiences, but your mileage may (and sounds like it has) vary.

[Lanz]

Not really my experience, but then again I don't keep tabs on every other gamer in the local area and make note every time something goes wrong for them. For my part, I've never had a problem with PP's customer service. Unless PP hates you for some reason, there is probably another reason why you didn't get a response.

Or you can just believe PP inexplicably hates you and just you.

A note on damaged parts though; it's entirely possible for parts to be damaged in shipping and may not be privateer's fault at all. The weight of a torso on a spear as a crate is put down too heavily could bend or break the spear, it didn't go into the packaging that way.

In fact, it would arguably be rather difficult to accidentally pack a broken part as it would require somehow having both parts of the broken piece and putting them both in the box/blister. Odds are if you get a broken part, and all parts are still in the box/blister, it wasn't PP's doing.

[FearMeMortals]

I think you're talking about two different things. Quality control versus customer service.

I am in fact talking about both quality control and customer service. First I have received many items with defective or missing parts (QC) and then I have found it very hard and in some cases was not able to get replacement parts from PP (customer service). Like you I have bought thousands of dollars of PP minis.

RE: Lanz, I've not recieved anything broken but I have gotten quite a few items that were deformed. Examples are TFG spears that have deformed or missing spear heads and I've got a collection of about a dozen severely warped or deformed Exemplar shoulder pads. More common though are missing components. These have made up the majority of my request for parts. Of course I don't think that PP hates me :P

I've had good experiences with PP customer service where I sent an email, got a reply within a few days and my item within a few weeks. I've also experienced the other extreme where I've received nothing. I know I'm not the only one from my area with this issue too.

[TheConstantWay]

I'm always a little psyched when I get brokenly deformed stuff. I put in a replacement parts request and I get some sweet bitz for basing! Of course, I'm Seattle-based, so replacement parts are usually pretty darn quick...

[Lanz]

I do wonder about the regional thing. I'm in Vancouver so I'm also (comparatively) much closer to PP than some. Obviously the further stuff has to to travel the more that can happen to it along the way, but do PP assemble everything at one place and send it around, or do they have lots of assembly areas? If they have lots of assembly areas, then it stands to reason that not all of them would have the same level of quality control, and some regions might have it worse than others.

Though I'm pretty sure PP does everything from their own place, right?

[enoto]

Anecdotally, I've had one or two miscasts or mispacks per year I've been playing. I collect four factions, so I don't consider that rate too bad.

If you used the contact customer service tool on the front page, don't; it's woefully bad. Apparently communications from there frequently get routed to the spam box.

If you email PP directly they should be able to take care of you, they're good people.

[PG_Ghool]

There's a parts replacement portal that will get you your replacements within a week or two. I'm in Canada, and the longest I've had to wait is three weeks, including the shipping time.

Don't email them, just use the portal.

[Gavriel]

They have stated on a few of these forums that emails sent directly to adam or via frontdesk aren't really getting top attention anymore. If you want to get service, use the form provided on the portal Ghool posted.

I've not had any trouble since they added that.

[Pudgeinabowl]

Yeah I used that for a Seraph I'd brought years before (never assembled it), explained my situation and got a new wing (the pack had come with 2 Right wings, so I got a left one, and I'm still trying to work out what to do with my spare ).

Make sure there's a good photo with your request, and keep it short and succinct, but include all the relevant information. Nobody wants to read a life story when all they need to see is "My spears are blobby, here's a pic, the packing no. and the store I got it from (and why the store can't handle it)".

Really I couldn't bring myself to diss on a company that has a fantastic thing like the parts portal, I've gotten worse service trying to return video games that came with chipped discs on the same day I brought them (granted it's a bit harder if you're young to get a clerk to believe you didn't chew on it).

[Kalranya]

I've had ONE issue so far; a box of Slaughterhousers showed up missing a glaive. Fired a request through the parts portal and had the missing bits in my mailbox in four days, and over a holiday weekend, no less. It had been postmarked the day after I submitted it, meaning the delay was all USPS and not Privateer. No hassle, no fuss, and considering I submitted the request late in the evening before a holiday weekend, pretty damn quick.

Now mind, I'm local to PP as well (in fact I drive by their office a couple of times a month), but I don't see why that should make a difference to how quickly they respond to a request; the mail system, however, is beyond their control, and PP shouldn't be blamed for the inefficiencies of municipal workers who are already bitter about their entire industry getting yanked out from under them.

[skarreslave2]

Some people just get bad luck buying stuff. I've been playing since '04 and purchased many many figures(thousands of dollars) for multiple armies in that time. I've had 3 mispacks total. Each time a fast email to PP and the bits where in my hands in under a week. 1 of the times I was even living in korea, only took a week to get to me from seattle.

[PG_Devilsquid]

When you go to the customer service section, you can put in your email and check the status of your missing piece tickets.

Hope that helps.

[roddo]

I get alot of mispacks, and the fastest I've ever gotten anything is about 3 weeks, and usually it takes alot longer to even get a response, say nothing about the parts. I've tried the portal, emails, pm's to adam, and none of them seem to speed up the process for me. Other companies I've dealt with I've had the stuff in 24 hours, and less than a week from europe. it seems pretty hit or miss, other guys at my lgs have the same experiences as me, and some say they never wait more than a week. I think PP hates me.

[lastspartacus]

The service is great! I've known folks to get whole battle engines for free due to mispacks, but I have only gotten a free goreshade. Although at the time I had a tournament coming up and not the model I needed, so it was a mixed bag.

[FearMeMortals]

I actually have discovered the parts portal. I don't know about how PP go about distributing to the various regions they service. What I do know is that my LGS (in my signature) and many others in Australia order directly from the US rather than going through the Australian providers because its significantly cheaper and they can pass those savings onto their customers.

I had a big chat about this with the owner of my LGS last year (my club is very likely the largest WM&H LGS+Club in Australia afaik). He said that he thinks PP's QC is out of control, and he gets a lot of customer's bringing issues to him (according to the Australian Trade Practice's Act 1974 the place of purchase is supposed to handle all warranty / faults complaints and sort it out with the manufacturer. Even though most business try to duck this and put the customer in touch with the manufacturer directly contract to the act, many people still go to the place of purchase out of habit). He attributes this to the fact that the game EXPLODED with popularity in 2011 especially in Australia and he had a really had time getting stock and apparently PP was pretty overworked trying to produce enough mini's to supply the demand.

To clarify, I don't overly mind miss packs even though it seems that anytime I order some models (I usually do my ordering in small handfuls rather than piece by piece), I crack open the goodies and at least one if not more items will be missing a component. What I do mind are the parts I've been waiting on for over 12 months, and how I get told by suppliers in Australia to email PP but they don't reply and the situation isn't handled.

I've only used the new portal once. Hopefully this does improve the service, and its very possible that PP created it because they were having issues with a sudden explosion of customers (more customers = more sales = more miss packs even if the % of total miss packs stay the same).

I get alot of mispacks, and the fastest I've ever gotten anything is about 3 weeks, and usually it takes alot longer to even get a response, say nothing about the parts. I've tried the portal, emails, pm's to adam, and none of them seem to speed up the process for me.

This has been my experience too, and I know we're not the only ones. We might be a minority that have fallen through the cracks, but its still something that I'd like to see improved. I love PP and their games and I get really disappointed when stuff like this happens.

[Cambrian]

In Brisbane do you get supplied by the North American manufacturer or the European?

I ask because having order some items from Maelstrom (UK supplier) I noticed the models seemed to require significantly more prep work. I know PP contracts out production for the European market and as such the quality is different and seemingly better in NA.

Either way I have not had any missing parts and only minor warping and more than acceptable mold scars. A good file and some time was enough to avoid contacting customer service.

[Mod_Plarzoid]

Call. From what I understand, no one calls.

[The Antipope]

There's a parts replacement portal that will get you your replacements within a week or two. I'm in Canada, and the longest I've had to wait is three weeks, including the shipping time.

Don't email them, just use the portal.

Absolutely. I'm in China and I usually wait no longer than 2 weeks.

[FearMeMortals]

I live in Australia and I'm a busy person. I can't really call the USA.

In Brisbane do you get supplied by the North American manufacturer or the European?

I ask because having order some items from Maelstrom (UK supplier) I noticed the models seemed to require significantly more prep work. I know PP contracts out production for the European market and as such the quality is different and seemingly better in NA.

Either way I have not had any missing parts and only minor warping and more than acceptable mold scars. A good file and some time was enough to avoid contacting customer service.

We're supplied by NA. However I have bought stuff from Maelstrom / Wayland games in the past. I didn't notice any fluctuations in QC between the distributors but this is pretty likely to be just my experience. Most of the stuff I buy comes from Australia stores (because I don't want to wait a month for models to save a few bucks), which either supply through Australian suppliers (which in turn get theirs from NA) or from NA directly.

[Pudgeinabowl]

From what I've seen of the Australian distributors, it is faster to order something from Hong Kong online, have it shipped to america, shipped from america to Australia, get lost by Aus post for a day or so, and then get it.

Whether its because our distributor is lazy, ill supplied or just incompetent I don't know, but it takes months for anything ordered via the LGS to show up, and even then they only send part of the orders.

[Nion]

I buy a lot of things (not just models), and I've had... 5 or 6 miscasts/mispacks since I started just before Legends came out. This is a relatively low rate, on par with most other non-gaming merchanside that I buy.

And seriously, use that parts replacement portal. It's amazingly effective.

[PPS_Adam]

I live in Australia and I'm a busy person. I can't really call the USA.

Sorry for the trouble, I've sent a PM to learn your name and look into the status of your request.

If anybody has any questions about parts I can be reached at frontdesk@privateerpess.com, feel free to put Attn:Adam in the title and I will be sure to give your message attention right away. My response time is usually under 24 hours but if I take longer I can also be reached by the forums here or by phone at 425.643.5900 ex100, my office ours are 6:30-3:30 PST.

[Bakemono]

I have to say that I reported a problem online with two different orders (a Warpwolf Stalker with a deformed leg) and a Stormlord missing a hand. It generated a ticket for me but I've yet to hear anything or get replacements.

[CageyJ0nnY]

Yeah, ive been disappointed recently. My Behemoth was missing its left shoulder, and Drago a set of spikes and a chimney stack. Pretty annoying. It seems like a lottery now when opening a box seeing weather you have received the correct parts...

[PG_Asa]

I have had huge issues with missing bits and the like. I try to imagine bins of arms and heads and such and some kid picking through it, filling up blisters and cursing non stop. (Ok which is the epic feora head?)

I have had wonderful experiences with the missing parts portal though. I live in North Carolina and typically get stuff within a week. It is a little weird to not get a confirmation email, but I want them focusing on getting my stuff to me. I can always just check my status online.

[dchadpage]

I've had a couple problems with mispacks. It's very discouraging to wait for a new order, then get it and see that you can't even play with the thing you've already waited on. It's a huge hassle and inconvenience.

I have an Allegiant right now that was missing a foot. He's just sitting in a drawer because I hate having to request a part for a new item that I bought that came incomplete. I can't even put him on a base because the tab is on the missing foot.

I like to think that it's due to growing pains within the company because it's a great game that really seems to be growing quickly. But then I wonder what their QC process is like, or if they even have one.

It makes me think of going through a drive-thru at a fast food joint and they give you the wrong drink. Some guy with a crappy job just really doesn't care if you hate diet coke or not - that happened to be what his finger pushed so whatever dude! That's a huge pet peeve of mine. I know your job sucks, but that doesn't make it okay to suck at it. On the other hand, I'd rather that guy work at fast food and give me the wrong drink than be the one that works on my brakes or something. The world needs all kinds. It's a trade-off really.

[FearMeMortals]

I would have to agree that it seems like a lottery when you get your hands on your new models, and you have to find out if you can even assemble them.

In regards to Adam's comments. I do email the frontdesk with this issues; I was directed to by the sales person at the shop that sold me my very first bunch of models (and, being me, my very first miss pack). I also use the new miss pack tool now that its available. However I still have some models that I've just lived without the pieces for years that were never addressed, even though I reported them. I'd really like to get these sorted out so I can close the book on it once and for all

[Dracon]

Yeah it is a lottery. In which you lose something, get something, or get something and something extra!
I think the fact that PPS is really trying to help though shows that they care. You won't see many other gaming companies doing everything short of going to your house to give you your money's worth

[DarkChamber]

I've gotten a few minis with missing parts in it but so far PP has treated me well. I put in the request and I get it in a couple of weeks. Overall I can't complain.

[John215]

Yeah it is a lottery. In which you lose something, get something, or get something and something extra!
I think the fact that PPS is really trying to help though shows that they care. You won't see many other gaming companies doing everything short of going to your house to give you your money's worth

I agree, could not have said it better.

[DarkChamber]

I can agree on that as well. PP does seem to listen to the fans.

[HarmoniousBorealis]

My store, in Vancouver, Canada area, started carrying PP about half a year ago. Since then, we've had almost a dozen reported mispacks, to the extent that customers will open the packages and check before purchasing stuff. That's not a huge inconvenience considering the packaging PP uses, granted

When I first asked our distributor about it, they said to contact frontdesk, but after having zero luck with email or phoning, I managed to find the mispack portal. Nothing's come in less than a month, but the stuff has come. I know some customers just decided it wasn't worth the effort to report, but told me after, which is the decision I made when I found that the detail along my Pureblood's head armour was all pulled up and separated. I decided to just re-sculpt and live.

So I guess we haven't had good luck with this lottery. The game is still a big, popular, expanding part of our store, and I'm glad. It seems like growing pains to me as well.

[Jestor]

I've opened well over 1000 different boxes in my time in Warmachine (don't ask, I play way too many factions) and I have gotten like 10 different times where I had to get replacement of missing parts. That's 1%. In the Quality Control world, that's pretty good. Any time I had to get a replacement, I sent Adam a PM and got a response within a day OR I used the portal (now that it is up) and got my stuff within 1 week.

I'm sorry that you seem to be having an issue. I don't think it is thier Quality Control though. They have pretty good quality all things considered. I'm the head of Quality Control at the Manufacturing plant I work at. When I stay under or around 1% I get a bonus because the system is working well

[Bakemono]

According to my trouble ticket my replacement parts shipped on the 1st. I would have thought they should be to me by now. If they haven't come by this weekend I'm going to be very interested to know what kind of shipping they are using.

[skarreslave2]

shipping usually is regular first class USPS for the bits I've ordered.

[Bakemono]

shipping usually is regular first class USPS for the bits I've ordered.

Then I need to be on the phone with them. Seven days seems a bit long for first class.

[Jestor]

If they dropped it in thier shipping bin on Thursday the 1st after thier shipments were already picked up it wouldn't actually ship until Friday. Depending on the size of the post office they may not sort outgoing packages on Saturdays, just letters which means it really might not have shipped until Monday "for reals".

[dchadpage]

I've opened well over 1000 different boxes in my time in Warmachine (don't ask, I play way too many factions) and I have gotten like 10 different times where I had to get replacement of missing parts. That's 1%. In the Quality Control world, that's pretty good. Any time I had to get a replacement, I sent Adam a PM and got a response within a day OR I used the portal (now that it is up) and got my stuff within 1 week.

I'm sorry that you seem to be having an issue. I don't think it is thier Quality Control though. They have pretty good quality all things considered. I'm the head of Quality Control at the Manufacturing plant I work at. When I stay under or around 1% I get a bonus because the system is working well

My experience has been much higher than 1%. I've opened maybe 50 boxes and have had at least 3 mispacks or broken or missing pieces. For me, that happened to be about 6% Which I realize is anecdotal but that means your 1% is too.

As far as QC, you don't ship out that 1% that you find to be bad. I've worked in a few factories, and from my experience, QC has always worked such that some samples are taken from every batch, or in some cases, every part is checked. If it's bad, it's not shipped out, and the more samples from that batch are taken until there is a confidence that we weren't sending out bad parts.

I'd say the expectation should vary considerably depending on your product. If you're producing building materials for example and 1% of what you ship out is bad, that's not a big deal. One 2x4 out of 100 isn't anything to worry about - it'll just get tossed out and no one will care. But if it's a finished product, like a mini, and a customer receives a bad pack, that's 100% of that user's experience, which is a much bigger deal.

[subgenius]

Shipping through the portal system is usually pretty prompt. I've had replacement cards for items that had the old mk1 versions inside sent to both China and Spain, and in each case they were at my door in about 2 weeks.