Hardcore tournament lists - Reznik & Feora2

[itchmonkey]

Hi all,

There is going to be a local hardcore tournament in the next several weeks. The scenario will be Close Quarters; and player is only allowed 7 minutes per turn. It's 50pts with 1 list per player, and hardcore painting is a requirement as well. Given the close-quarter-ness, I am thinking of bringing either Reznik or Feora2 to the tourney.

The Reznik list will be:

Reznik -6
Reckoner 8
Fire of Salvation 9
Hierophant 2
Avatar 11
Choir (min) 2
Exemplar Bastions (max) 8
Exemplar Cinerators (max) 8
Saxon Orrik 2
Covenant 2
Vassal 2
Vassal 2

The plan is to simply cram as many Exemplars down the opponent's throat, followed by 3 heavies & Reznik as dessert. Naturally Cinerators will be at the front, and Bastions will follow. Hopefully any gunline player will concentrate on the Cinnies first. The issue that I can see with this list is, it's slow, and there's not enough shooty stuff. It may suffer against gunline lists, or cryx bane-spam.

The Feora2 list looks like:

Feora2 -6
Reckoner 8
Vanquisher 8
Redeemer 6
Hierophant 2
Avatar 11
Choir (min) 2
Exemplar Cinerators (max) 8
Rhoven & Co 4
Covenant 2
Vassal 2
Vassal 2
Wracks 1

I'm more familiar with Feora2 than Reznik, and found her very flexible most of the time. The will prompt the opponents to come to my line. The Cinnies are there to die & absorb any charges. Rhoven will help with mitigating stealth units and/or tartarsauce. The only issue I find is the last of pathfinder (probably alright given the shooty nature of the list), and against troll or legion (anti-fire). Additionally, I have used a smaller version (35pts) of this list successfully in the last tourney (in 3 games, all victories with assassination).

Does anyone have input on the above lists & using them in hardcore?

Cheers!!

[Philosopher]

Interestingly I'm going to a hardcore tournament in a week or so and those are exactly the two casters I am deciding between. The lists are even pretty similar. Certainly in style to the sorts of things I'm thinking about. I have a couple of thoughts:

For Reznik you could replace the Fires of Salvation with another Reckoner or Vanquisher. Probably a Reckoner. Reach helps his threat range and it's another gun, though he isn't as sneaky as Fires. The extra point can get you some Wracks which are always nice with Reznik.

For Feora I've never been a big fan of the Redeemer. It certainly can work against infantry forces but those are likely to be in the minority in Hardcore and I'd just expect it to run out of targets. When I'm running her at 50 points I actually run another heavy instead. (In your list that would have to be a Crusader, though you could perhaps replace Rhoven with something else to get some more points). A Crusader would be nice though to give you some extra hitting power. I usually end up bonding the Reckoner. It gives you an accurate fire-causing sniper and the extra focus you can allocate it is a nice bonus for assassinations.

That's just based on my own preferences though. I've never had a Redeemer really work for me.

I'll post my actual lists later.

[itchmonkey]

Cheers mate. I'd be interested to hear how your tourney goes.

Strangely the Redeemer works for me, not in terms of damage output, but as psychological threat to the opponent's caster/lock. I guess no one like to be burned from 16" away. He even participated in assasination shots a few times.

[itchmonkey]

Concocted a harbinger list on my free time last night. It haz:

Harbinger -5
Crusader 6
Reckoner 8
Hierophant 2
Avatar 11
Choir (min) 2
Cinerators (max) 8
Bastions (max) 8
Gorman 2
Saxon Orrick 2
Covenant 2
2 x Vassal 4

The tactic for this list is pretty much the same as Reznik list. She does support the units better with guided hands, crusader call & martyrdom. More annoying in scenario play as well. The only worry is ranged assassination n killbox. That's why I include gorman, although against legion n some list he maybe meh.

[Philosopher]

Well we will find out about my tournament this weekend...Due to painting not happening I'll be running out Epic Feora. I've certainly got the most experience with her, and this is only a heat for the UK. The target is to finish in the top half to qualify for the final so I'm hoping she'll get me there. Then I can hopefully break out Reznik inthe final.

My Feora list will be:

Epic Feora
Bonded Reckoner
Vanquisher
Fires of Salvation (crazy Banana Charges!)
Avatar of Menoth

10 Flameguard (no attachment)
Daughters of the Flame
Max Choir

Covenant
2 Vassals

Nice and simple. I've used something similar quite a lot and it always does well enough so I'm expecting that familiarity will carry the day.

My plan for Reznik was to load the table with lots and lots of armour, combined with lots and lots of shooting. It's similar to the Harbinger list you have above in some ways.

Reznik
2 Vanquishers
2 Reckoners
(I figure I'd get some shots out of Witchhound, and of course anybody that leaves a line to their caster is going to have Reznik's feat and then lots of firey cannonballs!)
2 Max Cinerators
(Hide Reznik, clear infantry, and provide a pretty hard to budge skirmish screen so I can shoot for as long as possible)
2 Vassals
Heirophant
Max Choir
Wracks

And best thing of all? It's a Tier List! (That's how I can afford all that stuff). I'm not sure it's a great list but it looks a lot of fun.

And as for the Redeemer, I really love the idea of it and I tried it a few times really wanting it to work. It just never quite paid off for me. Whereas replacing it with a heavy and having 4 on the table has done lots of good in all sorts of games. Mostly when my opponent takes a look at and then at his infantry swarm and tries to work out how to deal with them all. It's also psychological warfare but bit more in your face.

I'll be sure to comment on how I do once it's all over as well.

[itchmonkey]

The Reznik list looks interesting. I can imagine it going pewpew while steadily advancing across the board. It's a shame Cinnies are not immune to fire. Otherwise, imagine the shenanigans on Reznik's tier. Nyum

[paradox]

I'm looking at taking Feora 2 to a local Hardcore soon. Here's what I'm thinking (in keeping with my Crutch-free).

Feora, Protector of the Flame +6 points
* Crusader 6 points
* Reckoner 8 points (bond)
* Scourge of Heresy 9 points
* Hierophant 2 points

Avatar of Menoth 11 points
10 Holy Zealots 6 points
* Monolith Bearer 2 points
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt 4 points
2x Reclaimer 2 points each
The Covenant of Menoth 2 points
Vassal Mechanik 1 point
3 Wracks 1 point

Expecting lower model-count, so minimal swarm control, but it can be done. Reckoner shots pop fire out there. Feora doesn't need a whole lot to be effective on a run, and ignite + Harm can make lots of stuff hit real hard.

[dchadpage]

For the OP's eFeora list, be careful of shooting 6 AoE's a turn with 7 minutes on the clock.

Otherwise, I like it.

[IridiumFire]

...

Reznik
2 Vanquishers
2 Reckoners
(I figure I'd get some shots out of Witchhound, and of course anybody that leaves a line to their caster is going to have Reznik's feat and then lots of firey cannonballs!)
2 Max Cinerators
(Hide Reznik, clear infantry, and provide a pretty hard to budge skirmish screen so I can shoot for as long as possible)
2 Vassals
Heirophant
Max Choir
Wracks

And best thing of all? It's a Tier List! (That's how I can afford all that stuff). I'm not sure it's a great list but it looks a lot of fun.
...

I'm liking this list a lot. Been trying to find a sensible way of using my two units of Cinerators other than shelf decorations.

My only concern is the lack of a "beatstick". For all that the REckoner and Vanquisher are great jacks, if they lose their combat weapon I find they get bogged down. Now, If I were to change anything, I'd probabaly drop the Choir down to min, then drop one Vanquisher (keeping the Reckoners at 7 points is a steal). This gives 9 points to play with and these options:

- Guardian
- Scourge of Heresy
- Templar + Maxing out the choir.

What would you guys suggest??

[Philosopher]

I really like the Cinerators myself, which is one reason for wanting to use 2 units of them. And in the games I've played they've actually performed quite well.

As for your changes: I'd argue against reducing the Choir. If your opponent can get at them then there's a good chance they will try. Having a few spares keeps them relative for the whole game. In fact at 50 points I usually use 2 minimum choirs for just this reason (more resilient to failing command checks and being able to throw out two different hymns is very nice). So in that case I'd go with the Templar. (Actually I'd use a Castigator - he hits pretty hard with two good weapons making him harder to cripple, he gives you a full range of power attacks and combust can replace some of the Vanquisher infantry clearance, with Perdition and Witch Hound to help get into position - then again I'm very fond of the Castigator and he's always done a good job for me). You can also ignite the Cinerators for some decent hits of just use Reznik himself.

Thing is though, other than the Scourge of Heresy the other jacks don't hit that much harder than the Reckoner or vanquisher (especially with Ignite helping) so unless you are taking on nothing but Khador heavies then I don't think you'll need him that much. My Vanquishers do a reasonable job beating stuff up. Also with the vanquisher in you can (using Vassals) hit most heavies with enough firepower to wreck them (2 Boosted Power 15 and 2 Boosted Power 16 followed by two more Power 16 while your opponent is trying to bash their way through your Cinerators). It also gives you more options for Witch Hound attacks, and was intended for assassination options in Hardcore where having more guns gives you a better chance of having one in the right place and unengaged.

I do know what you mean on the Protectorate Ranged jacks getting bogged down though. Happens all the time. Usually when they lose the weapon they need. I might be tempted to replace one Vanquisher with a Crusader and just load up on Mechanics! That should sort that problem out!

To be honest though, I think either of your approaches are fine (though if you want a 9 point heavy then I'd actually replace the Wracks to get the extra point and keep the Max Choir for the reasons I mentioned above). I do like the Scourge of Heresy, though I don't think this list would make the best use of him. I want my opponent to hit me with spells! I'd go with the Guardian to give me a little more flexibility on where Reznik need to be. Plus throwing stuff around is always fun. Whilst I would happily play this list and plan to once everything is painted it's mostly just quite funny. And nobody expects that many guns from the Protectorate.

And I just noticed your location. I'm actually in Nottingham, so pretty close by. There was one chap in the doubles at Maelstrom last year who bet that Reznik couldn't single-handedly kill Megalith with Strength of Stone on him. I came out of that 37p richer! (And then Reznik got killed by Baldur but it won us the scenario so that was ok).

[itchmonkey]

I have just tried my eFeora list tonight. Tell you what...those Cinnies can really hold the line. Yes they'll die after a turn or two. But it took max furies on both Ghetorix & WW Feral to kill 4. After which the Avatar, Vanquisher & Reckoner killed the WW Feral and nearby WW Stalker.

Long story short, eFeora attempted assassination on Kromac. Failed due to really bad dice roll (rolled 6, 5 and 6 to hits on 3 boosted attempts, while needing 8 to hit).

It's a good list, speedy and lots of guns to threaten stuff. When necessary, it can hold the zone & do hefty counter attacks. And Rhoven really helped with the anti-stealth vs Shifting Stones.

Bleh...too tired. Can't write battle report now

[IridiumFire]

And I just noticed your location. I'm actually in Nottingham, so pretty close by. There was one chap in the doubles at Maelstrom last year who bet that Reznik couldn't single-handedly kill Megalith with Strength of Stone on him. I came out of that 37p richer! (And then Reznik got killed by Baldur but it won us the scenario so that was ok).

I may well of been in that tournament?? Myself and my doubles partner came last! lol

And the guy you're talking about was probabaly one of the guys from one of the other teams from our gaming club haha


Back on topic: Itchmonkey. Glad to hear the Cinerators worked well for you. Shame the dice failed you though!

[itchmonkey]

Yeah initially I was using a set of new dice. Rolled too many lows. Then switched to my old dice set mid-game. And they punished me for not being faithful

[Philosopher]

Just for the record my force did the job it needed and got me into the top half of the tournament to qualify me for the final! My wins both came on the back of a long range Reckoner shot when my opponent left a path through to their caster, with a nice fire damage roll on top of that.

BUT I can't honestly recommend the list for the final and I won't be using it again. It's fine for most games but in Hardcore with the time limit (that's for the games - the turn time limit was fine), you only get about 4 turns and if the opposing caster is hiding at the back and then can jam you up in the middle to keep you out of scoring it's very easy for the games to end in a tie. So if you want a list that can sneak a few wins with a bit of luck and it tough to beat but is unlikely to win you enough games to win the whole thing (in my experience at least) then the list is fine. But I definitely want something a little more aggressive for the final, shooting for those assassinations. The Prime Kreoss lists that were there did better for the Protectorate and a Thyra list also qualified, pretty much thanks to attack runs from Thyra herself.

[IridiumFire]

Just for the record my force did the job it needed and got me into the top half of the tournament to qualify me for the final! My wins both came on the back of a long range Reckoner shot when my opponent left a path through to their caster, with a nice fire damage roll on top of that.

BUT I can't honestly recommend the list for the final and I won't be using it again. It's fine for most games but in Hardcore with the time limit (that's for the games - the turn time limit was fine), you only get about 4 turns and if the opposing caster is hiding at the back and then can jam you up in the middle to keep you out of scoring it's very easy for the games to end in a tie. So if you want a list that can sneak a few wins with a bit of luck and it tough to beat but is unlikely to win you enough games to win the whole thing (in my experience at least) then the list is fine. But I definitely want something a little more aggressive for the final, shooting for those assassinations. The Prime Kreoss lists that were there did better for the Protectorate and a Thyra list also qualified, pretty much thanks to attack runs from Thyra herself.

Well done on qualifying!

I was actually there for the last game. I was wandering around taking photos in a black t-shirt lol I'd gone along to support three mates that were taking part in the tournament. Unfortunately non managed to qualify.

I must apologise though, as I didn't see Reznik on the tables (although couldn't easily get to all the games to take a peek). My mate who came 19th got taken down twice by the pKreoss 'Pop & Drop' trick. I also saw the Thyra army and thought it looked pretty nice!

*sorry for kinda highjacking the thread!*

Itchmonkey: Dice are fickle things aren't they!!

[itchmonkey]

@Philosopher: congrats for qualifying to the final! Let us know if you got more wins

pKreoss pop-n-drop? I thought nobody uses it anymore? Hmm....tempting...people must've forgotten about how effective it is by now.

I managed to sneak a game last night with Harbinger vs Legion (eThagrosh).

Mine: Harby, Hierophant, Reckoner, Vanquisher, Avatar, max Bastions, max Cinerators, min Choirs, the Book, 2 x Vassals, Rhupert.

His, if I remember correctly: eTharg, Ravagore, Scythean, Canivean, Seraph, 2 x Shredder, cauldron + max handlers, max Legionaries, 2 x Shepards



Scenario is Close Quarters, deployment is pretty much:

                   (1 Sheprd & Shreddr on each flank)
          Ravg   Seraph  cauldron   legionrs   eThag    Carnv  Scyth         

     Building              Few hedges                  Forest

        Cinnies & Bastions   Avtr  Reckr       Harby   Vanq                  
(supports behind Avtr & Reckr, Rhupert behind Cinnies & Bastions)

Nothing much on the 1st turns. He moved his stuff forward, and I ran all mine (Choir sang Passage & Vassals gave Enliven).

On his 2nd turn, Seraph passed slipstream to Ravagore, which moved and shot one of the Choir. The AOE cont. fire hit one Vassal & Harby as well. I let the Choir die, but martyred the Vassal. The Seraph & Shredder managed to kill one and wound another Cinnies. The rest moved forward, with Spawning Vessel & handlers hiding right behind the Ravagore.

On my 2nd turn, the Cinnies & a Bastions charged the Ravagore (nearly there) & a Legionary (dead). Choired & Enlivened Avatar popped Gaze and finished the Ravagore. His placement means the Bastions & Cinnies covered his left flank to prevent next turn charges from the Serapth & Shredder. Reckoner moved & shot the cauldron, leaving it on 1 health left and on fire. Harby martyred the Vassal-on-fire (who had moved in front of Harby), moved & feat, while the Vanq moved slightly forward & to the right of Harby. The last ones happened on my extreme right flank.

I did a mistake on this turn, which was moving Harby slightly to the right, instead of more to the centre. This is due to the confusing Choirs & Covenant placements. This proved to be fatal later...:|

On his turn, the cauldron of spawnlol died due to cont. fire (rolled just enough to kill it). His legionaires couldn't move much because of Harby's feat. So he attempted an assassination run. eThag moved forward, feated, and did a lame attack on the Reckoner (and did a few castings). Reckoner enlivened away. He then forced his Shredder on my right flank (near Harby) to run, and got the Scythean to charge the Vassal that stand in front of Harby, past the forrest (cursed Eyeless Sight & Pathfinder on Legion's beasts). The Vassal died (Bloodbath etc), and he bought two attacks vs Harby. She was still alive with 6 wounds after this. With the feat, the Shredder moved closer to Harby, but died due to her feat (moved twice, hit twice). The Scythean stays where it was, and did an attack on Harby. Needing 10 to hit (3 dices due to Manifest Destiny), lo & behold, he rolled 6, 4 and 3 (total 10)!!! So Harby ended up being sliced & diced by the Scythean, and that ended the game.



Should he failed that roll, I would roflstomped eThag on the following turn because he's only a few inches away from the Avatar, Reckoner, and 3-4 Bastions.

I found the list suits Close Quarters very much. There's nothing much he could do (apart from the assassination attempt) on his 3rd turn, due to Harby's feat and well-spaced heavy infantries means he has to trade one beast with 1-2 warriors.

On hindsight, Harby's probably best to stay away from the warjacks & their supports. E.g. behind the Cinnies & Bastions. Otherwise she might get tangled when trying to charge/run/move. She should really be in the centre & back of the whole formation to shield her from shooting/weird-assassination-moves.

I'll try this deployment next time:

        Cinnies & Bastions       Avtr  Reckr    Vanq
              Rhupert    Harby     Book   supports

[spooner]

Army Name: Efeora
Protectorate of Menoth
50+6 points, 19 models

Feora, Protector of the Flame +6 points
* Templar 8 points
* 2x Vanquisher 8 points each

Avatar of Menoth 11 points
4 Choir of Menoth 2 points
6 Holy Zealots 4 points
* Monolith Bearer 2 points
The Covenant of Menoth 2 points
Vassal of Menoth 2 points
Vessel of Judgment 9 points


This is what I am looking at taking to a 50pt hardcore