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ultimateframe
03-11-2012, 04:35 PM
Played E Kaya today, getting ramped up for plastic warp wolves for tier 4!!!!

Ran into a fun situation with muzzle, wanted to ask for clarification.

Enemy warbeast without reach is 9 inches away from E Kaya and suffer's damage from Muzzle. Cool, it can't end closer to her than it started. Warpwolf Stalker goes over, stabs it with reach a few times.

Opponents turn, the beast suffering from Muzzle frenzies. 3 possible targets. a: Stalker b: druid c: opponents own Shredder warbeast.

Targets a and b would put the Carnivean closer to Kaya than it started, so Muzzle prevents both those Frenzy targets. Target c, the Shredder, is on other side of board CLEARLY out of charge range. Since only viable target, Carnivean charges the Shredder, takes a free strike from Stalker, fails charge and ends activation. Correct?

Second situation, same setup except ALL Frenzy targets would put the Carnivean closer to E Kaya than it began so NO models are viable targets. Does the Carnivean just stand still and dance with anger?

Ultimateframe

Vicomte Athos
03-11-2012, 04:43 PM
Played E Kaya today, getting ramped up for plastic warp wolves for tier 4!!!!

Ran into a fun situation with muzzle, wanted to ask for clarification.

Enemy warbeast without reach is 9 inches away from E Kaya and suffer's damage from Muzzle. Cool, it can't end closer to her than it started. Warpwolf Stalker goes over, stabs it with reach a few times.

Opponents turn, the beast suffering from Muzzle frenzies. 3 possible targets. a: Stalker b: druid c: opponents own Shredder warbeast.

Targets a and b would put the Carnivean closer to Kaya than it started, so Muzzle prevents both those Frenzy targets. Target c, the Shredder, is on other side of board CLEARLY out of charge range. Since only viable target, Carnivean charges the Shredder, takes a free strike from Stalker, fails charge and ends activation. Correct?

Second situation, same setup except ALL Frenzy targets would put the Carnivean closer to E Kaya than it began so NO models are viable targets. Does the Carnivean just stand still and dance with anger?

Ultimateframe

Muzzle and Frenzy do not hvave any forced interaction, that is that Muzzle does not prohibit targeting from Frenzy. The Carni will follow the targeting rules in Primal regardless of muzzle; muzzle will only effect it's movement. If it cannot get closer to it's target because of muzzle it will simply not move, just as if it had frenzied and hit another model or building.

solkan
03-11-2012, 05:58 PM
Like Vicomte Athos says, the frenzy rules don't care whether the warbeast can actually reach its frenzy target. You go down the list, find the first target that qualifies, and follow the instructions. Frenzy doesn't care whether the target is "viable".

When you reach the part where the frenzied warbeast would advance, then you get into "must advance toward the target model" vs "cannot advance towards Kaya". And see page 29 for "cannot" + "must" = "don't" if there's no way to satisfy both requirements.