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Obeisance
03-11-2012, 09:50 PM
I couldn't find an answer to this via search.

Blighted Warchieft has and grants Blood Drinker. Ability states:

"Immediately after this model resolves a melee attack in which it destroys one or more living models, it can end it's activation to heal D3 wounds."

The question is about healing. The ability is obviously intended to stop you Beserking into your own guys. Does a model need to be damaged, in order to heal?

ie; Can I cram in my Mongers, kill stuff, then forfeit to heal 0?

solkan
03-11-2012, 10:08 PM
The cost of healing d3 wounds is ending its activation. Not the other way around.

If it is impossible to be healed d3 wounds (because you don't have any wounds to remove), you can't pay the price for doing so. It would be trying to force to make an additional attack without a valid target.

Obeisance
03-11-2012, 10:28 PM
So Blood Drinker doesn't stop Berserk if you're not damaged?

rydiafan
03-11-2012, 10:45 PM
Solkan has it backwards.

Blood Drinker gives you the option to end your activation. Doing so heals you. Nothing in it says you must be able to benefit to choose to stop berserking. This is contrary to Snacking, which is worded such that you must be wounded to use it.

solkan
03-11-2012, 10:59 PM
"Warcasters and warjacks can spend focus to make additional attacks."
"it can end it's activation to heal D3 wounds"

If you have a warjack standing around with nothing to attack, it can't spend focus to buy an attack to attack nothing. If the model isn't damaged, how can it pay "end its activation" to heal damage?

Edit: I had previously said 'If it said "it can end its activation and then heal D3 wounds" then there would be no requirement to actually perform the healing.' I retract this statement as unsupported.

Obeisance
03-11-2012, 11:22 PM
Ooookay.

Infernal or a link to previous ruling, please? =(

Obeisance
03-11-2012, 11:25 PM
Ooookay.

Infernal or a link to previous ruling, please? =(
https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?73882-Blood-drinker-and-berserk&highlight=blood+drinker+ending+activation
https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?41506-Berzerk-and-Warchief-Blood-drinker-ability.&highlight=Blood+Drinker

Looks like yes, Blood Drinker doesn't require you to be damaged.

solkan
03-12-2012, 12:43 AM
My understanding is that a thread which is not locked at the end is not necessarily correct. Both of those threads are still open.

Here's another version of why it doesn't work:

Model chooses to end its activation to trigger "end activation to heal D3 damage"
So the model ends its activation
Now you attempt to follow the rules to heal D3 damage. Healing 0 damage is not healing D3 damage.
Step 3 is impossible, which means that "end activation to heal" is impossible to resolve. This invokes the "Rewind and try again" principle, and you rewind to before "end activation to heal".


Note the way that the healing rules are phrased:

Some abilities, spells, and other effects remove damage points from a model. When a model with a life spiral is healed or has damage removed, remove the damage points from anywhere on the model's life spiral. Remember, if a model heals damage while disabled, it is no longer disabled.

There is, quite critically, no statement stating that a model without damage cannot be healed. It is, instead, simply outside of the scope of the rules (in other words, impossible). At step #3 you are required to heal D3 damage from the model, and the game cannot proceed until you do. The game cannot proceed, so you undo the the action leading to that state "end activation to heal" and you choose to do something else.

Obeisance
03-12-2012, 02:14 AM
Well. Clearly we're at an impasse.

Infernal, please?

rydiafan
03-12-2012, 04:13 AM
At step #3 you are required to heal D3 damage from the model, and the game cannot proceed until you do. The game cannot proceed, so you undo the the action leading to that state "end activation to heal" and you choose to do something else.

Would you claim this if the model had two damage and rolled to heal 3? Obviously, you can ignore "extra" healing.

Maudlin
03-12-2012, 05:00 AM
Important to acknowledge there are 2 different meanings of 'heal' here. Model A could heal model B for 5 damage points, while model B heals only 1 damage point.


There is no problem with targeting undamaged models with healing effects of the first kind. If the target model heals 0 damage, then it didn't heal, and anything triggering off it healing doesn't happen (cfr Snacking), but there was nothing illegitimate about the targeting or resolution of the healing effect.

Obeisance
03-12-2012, 05:28 AM
Thankyou, Maudlin. Good to know that I can stop Berserk with Blood Drinker if the attacker is undamaged.

I'll be in the laundry, spraying some Warmongers.