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Styles
03-21-2012, 02:44 PM
I had a situation with Terminus wanting to use flight to charge the Butcher who was behind a man o war (so behind a model with a stand the same size as both are medium). I could not see the actual Butcher model due to the man o war in the way but thought this did not matter as flight ignores intervening models? My opponent argued that as there was no line of site at all from Terminus to the Butcher I could not, I argued that flight ignored the man o war so it did not matter if he was completly blocking sight to the Butcher. Who is right?

drachenfels
03-21-2012, 02:46 PM
"ignores intervening models" = ignore all models in the path from the model with this ability to any target for the purpose of charging. so yes he could see butcher to declare him as the target of a charge.

Geekly
03-21-2012, 03:22 PM
Ooops, obstacles still block LOS when declaring charge targets, but models do not.

drachenfels
03-21-2012, 03:26 PM
last sentence of flight "this model ignores intervening models when declaring it's charge target" allowing you to draw line of sight THROUGH models to what you want as your charge target. you do need LOS past/through terrain to declare it, but models in the way do NOT block LOS to the target.

Mr. Golden Deal
03-21-2012, 03:27 PM
This model can advance through terrain and obstacles without penalty and can advance through obstructions and other models if it has enough movement to move completely past them. This model ignores intervening models when declaring its charge target.
(emphasis mine)

You're right that you need LOS to your charge target, but Flight ignores intervening models, so you can draw line of sight through the models that you ignore when you declare your charge target. If it worked the way you say it did, the second sentence wouldn't be there.

Flak Maniak
03-22-2012, 01:04 AM
One other thing to note is that the single MoW can't block LoS from Terminus to the Butcher on his own; there are plenty of lines that can be drawn from Terminus' front arc to the Butcher that wouldn't go through it. It actually can't even really block a medium-based attacker's LoS on its own, if you think about it. Unless they're perfectly aligned (to the planck length!), the attacker will be able to see the attacked model slightly on one side or the other of the one in between.

This all assumes, of course, no LoS-blocking terrain or other models, but since your question just specified one MoW, I thought I'd respond.

Alviaran
03-22-2012, 01:10 AM
One other thing to note is that the single MoW can't block LoS from Terminus to the Butcher on his own; there are plenty of lines that can be drawn from Terminus' front arc to the Butcher that wouldn't go through it. It actually can't even really block a medium-based attacker's LoS on its own, if you think about it. Unless they're perfectly aligned (to the planck length!), the attacker will be able to see the attacked model slightly on one side or the other of the one in between.

This all assumes, of course, no LoS-blocking terrain or other models, but since your question just specified one MoW, I thought I'd respond.

Facing can influence your available lines of sight as well. If a large base is not facing completely towards its intended target, it becomes much easier to block it with a similarly sized base.

Flak Maniak
03-22-2012, 01:11 AM
Mmm, yes, that is true. What I posted assumes the attacker directly faces the target. I wasn't even thinking about that when I posted it.

Valander
03-22-2012, 06:36 AM
"ignores intervening models" = ignore all models in the path from the model with this ability to any target for the purpose of charging. so yes he could see butcher to declare him as the target of a charge.
This is the correct answer to the original question. New questions should get new threads, and tactics discussion should go in other forums, please.