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View Full Version : Granted Abilities VS Influence?



jddilfer
03-27-2012, 01:44 AM
Before you reply to my post please be considerate: If you can't/won't bother to quote the rule and page number from the rulebook, or put the link to the thread you quote to give your answer, then don't post. I am not looking for a "because I said so" (unless you are an infernal, of course), and want a full explanation please.

So, if Influence is cast on a model successfully it becomes a Friendly model to you, and an Enemy model to your opponent. You then make a normal melee attack, and Influence expires. For the duration of the attack (including damage) the model is not Friendly to your opponent.

Would this also mean that any Granted Abilities that are on the model, would not be in play during the attack and following damage? My reasoning is that most Granted Abilities state something along the lines of, "While this model is in play, models in its unit gain XXX." However, while it is an enemy model it wouldn't have, or be a part of, an opposing unit. Can someone confirm this as correct/incorrect?

Thanks!

vintersbastard
03-27-2012, 03:13 AM
I'm afraid there really isn't any page that explicitly deals with your question.

After taking a look around some threads that deal with similar problems, I found the following:

- Influenced models are not part of their original unit, but they get to ignore formation restrictions (cf. here (https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?63809-Influence-Part-of-aunit&p=876917&viewfull=1#post876917)). So they don't have access to granted abilities from other unit members, but they might still keep their own (and be able use them).

- If controlled models change their model type from trooper to solo, they lose access to unit abilities, because they are not unit members any more (cf. here (https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?76522-Convert-on-officers-and-the-effect-on-Tactics&p=1042663&viewfull=1#post1042663)). Since Influence does not change the unit type, the Influenced model should be able to still use its own unit related abilities.

wazatdingder
03-27-2012, 04:22 AM
I believe you are over analyzing it, Influence simply says "take control (meaning you decide, not they become freindly) and make an attack" They never cease being part of the unit or being an enemy model.

If it helps, think of Influence as you are playing mind games to inspire friendly fire. The attacker has been magically tricked into percieving his buddy as an enemy and attacks him. No one has actually switched sides for any amount of time. Friendly fire is totally legal in the Iron Kingdoms.

Crate123
03-27-2012, 04:43 AM
I believe you are over analyzing it, Influence simply says "take control (meaning you decide, not they become freindly) and make an attack" They never cease being part of the unit or being an enemy model.

If it helps, think of Influence as you are playing mind games to inspire friendly fire. The attacker has been magically tricked into percieving his buddy as an enemy and attacks him. No one has actually switched sides for any amount of time. Friendly fire is totally legal in the Iron Kingdoms.

Actually they do stop being a part of the unit and they stop being enemy models. Read the threads Vintersbastard linked to. If you take control of a model it becomes friendly to you, thus its not an enemy model and they stop being members of the units they were in (while you control them).

poeticruse
03-27-2012, 05:27 AM
- Influenced models are not part of their original unit, but they get to ignore formation restrictions (cf. here (https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?63809-Influence-Part-of-aunit&p=876917&viewfull=1#post876917)). So they don't have access to granted abilities from other unit members, but they might still keep their own (and be able use them).


Per the errata, Granted abilities require that a model be in formation. ("Models in a unit gain the benefits of Granted abilities only while the model on whose card the rule appears is in formation.")

An influenced model is not in formation, nor is it in a unit, so it cannot benefit from others, nor does it keep its own.



- If controlled models change their model type from trooper to solo, they lose access to unit abilities, because they are not unit members any more (cf. here (https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?76522-Convert-on-officers-and-the-effect-on-Tactics&p=1042663&viewfull=1#post1042663)). Since Influence does not change the unit type, the Influenced model should be able to still use its own unit related abilities.

They lose abilities specific to being "in the unit" not "all unit abilities". I won't enumerate all instances, but for example Anatomical Precision is a unit ability that has no dependence on being in the unit. Bond of Brotherhood on the other hand starts with "Models in this unit" and won't apply while a model is Influence'd.