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Korhil
04-17-2012, 02:42 PM
2 completely unrelated questions that came up today.

1. If i remember correctly Camoflage says +2 defence when benefiting from concealment. Fog of war gives everything concealment. Concealment is +2 DEF vs ranged and magic attacks.

Ok so Manhunter get +4 DEF vs ranged and magic attacks but does he get +2 vs melee attacks for camoflage? Even in melee he is still benefiting from concealment it just doesnt add any defence.

2. B13th guys were engaged in melee. They have :Gunfighter:. From what ive been able to find in the rule book it appears that a model with gunfighter using its ranged weapon against an enemy in B2B contact with it still suffers the -4 penalty for shooting into melee. This right? Seems odd.

Valander
04-17-2012, 02:53 PM
Completely unrelated questions should go into separate threads.


Camouflage - This model gains an additional +2 DEF when benefiting from concealment or cover.Concealment and cover do not apply to melee attacks, so no camouflage bonus.

For Gunfighter:

A ranged attack roll does not suffer the target in melee attack roll penalty when the attacker is in melee with the target.

Leo_the_Rat
04-17-2012, 03:22 PM
But the B13 would suffer the -4 penalty for camouflage and concealment against the manhunter.

Korhil
04-17-2012, 03:31 PM
So are attacks made with ranged weapons with gunfighter in B2B considered ranged attacks or melee attacks?

If they are ranged attacks the camo and concealment bonuses would still apply even though you are fighting in melee range.

Kommissar Golovko
04-17-2012, 03:37 PM
Attacks from ranged weapons are still considered as ranged attack in the case of the model with Gunfighter.

Valander
04-17-2012, 03:38 PM
It says right in the Gunfighter ability:


Gunfighter – This model is a gunfighter (p. 63). The gunfighter has a melee range of 0.5 ˝ and can make ranged attacks targeting models in its melee range.So all ranged attack modifiers will apply, though as I pointed out earlier the target in melee penalty specifically does not apply for gunfighter attacking models it is in melee with (the rules quote in my previous post).

JacobtheAussie
04-17-2012, 04:02 PM
I believe that the manhunter would niether get the Camoflage defence (doesn't count in melee) or the Treewalker defence from Yuri (only gets that vs Melee attacks)

Cuagau
04-17-2012, 04:33 PM
I believe that the manhunter would niether get the Camoflage defence (doesn't count in melee) or the Treewalker defence from Yuri (only gets that vs Melee attacks)

In short, the manhunter is either benefiting from Camouflage OR Treewalker vs. any attack, depending on if it's a Ranged/magic or melee attack, respectively. Gunfighters can make RANGED ATTACKS whilst they are engaged (i.e. 0.5"), so Camouflage still applies.

Korhil
04-18-2012, 10:02 AM
Thanks for the answers. One more quick question can Yuri charge and Thresher? I didnt think you could use *Attacks after charges unless it says so.

Crate123
04-18-2012, 11:35 AM
If the *Attack is an ability of a melee weapon, then you can use it when you charge. Only the target you actually charge gets the bonus damage.

Valander
04-18-2012, 11:48 AM
New questions should get new threads, please.

(But Crate123's answer is correct.)