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Sinsation
05-08-2012, 06:17 PM
Can a member of the Witch Coven in Egregore's control area but not Kromac's control area cast spells at Kromac if Kromac has Bestial up and is in melee with Egregore? If so, will he get the defense bonus from being in melee, since he isn't in melee with the Witch but is in melee with Egregore, or will he not get the defense bonus because he is in melee with Egregore, the origin of the spell?

Thanks!

SageofLodoss
05-08-2012, 06:23 PM
Can a member of the Witch Coven in Egregore's control area but not Kromac's control area cast spells at Kromac if Kromac has Bestial up and is in melee with Egregore? If so, will he get the defense bonus from being in melee, since he isn't in melee with the Witch but is in melee with Egregore, or will he not get the defense bonus because he is in melee with Egregore, the origin of the spell?

Thanks!

The witch is the model casting the spell. Egregore is the model spending the focus and is the origin of the spell for range purposes, but he is not an arc node and is not technically channeling.

If the Witch is outside of Kromac's control area, then she should technically bypass Beastial.

Since Egregore is the origin of the spell and is in melee range of the target, I do not believe Kromac would make you suffer the target in melee penalty.

I think that's how it goes.

zyxx
05-09-2012, 04:09 AM
Can a member of the Witch Coven in Egregore's control area but not Kromac's control area cast spells at Kromac if Kromac has Bestial up and is in melee with Egregore? If so, will he get the defense bonus from being in melee, since he isn't in melee with the Witch but is in melee with Egregore, or will he not get the defense bonus because he is in melee with Egregore, the origin of the spell?

Thanks!

there is one this wrong with this scenario... If Kromac is in melee with the Egg... the game is over...

back on topic...if i understand the Coven correctly.. when a witch casts a spell, the egg is not the origin, the witch is.. she is just needs to be in the control area of the egg so she can use the focus. Same with arc nodes.. the control area is measured from the Egg, but the witch is casting the spell.

So in your scenario, unless you had something on your witches that increased the range of your spells dramatically, you could cast at Kromac if you were outside his control area and inside the Eggs. And yes, Kromac would receive the melee bonus as there is nothing in the Eggs rules that state that it cannot be engaged.

azaminkor
05-09-2012, 05:06 AM
The spells come from Egrogore. The witch casts the spell and is used to draw LOS, but Egrogore is the point of origin of the spell. Since he is not channelling nor casting the spell there should be no reason for Bestially to stop the witch from casting a spell at Kromac. And since the point of orgin (Egrogore) is engaged with its target there would be no 'in melee' bonus.

As a note, Egrogore has the focus for the coven and each witch can spend it as normal for a warcaster and it adds to ARM of each.

Leo_the_Rat
05-09-2012, 10:44 AM
If the witch is within Kromac's control area then she can not be used to channel spells. The coven rules state explicitly that the witches channel spells from egrogore. Bestial says that you can not cast or channel within the casters area of control.

Vex
05-09-2012, 11:35 AM
The coven rules state explicitly that the witches channel spells from egrogore. Bestial says that you can not cast or channel within the casters area of control.

The Coven rules say no such thing.

"When a witch casts a spell, the Egregore is the spell's point of origin. The Witch must have LOS to her target, but the Egregore does not. All LOS modifiers are based on the LOS of the Witch."

The Egregore does NOT channel spells. Therefore, if the Witch is outside Bestial's range, and has LOS to the target, she can cast a spell.

As for the target in melee penalty, I am not sure. The Witch is casting the spell, and is not in melee with her target, so I suspect that it applies. The point of origin is in melee, though, so that might count.

vintersbastard
05-09-2012, 11:40 AM
As for the target in melee penalty, I am not sure. The Witch is casting the spell, and is not in melee with her target, so I suspect that it applies. The point of origin is in melee, though, so that might count.

Point of Origin is the only thing relevant for the target in melee penalty (cf. Prime, p.64).

Vex
05-09-2012, 11:54 AM
Point of Origin is the only thing relevant for the target in melee penalty (cf. Prime, p.64).

Thanks for the reference.

"Ignore the target in melee attack roll penalty when the point of origin of the magic attack is in melee with the model against which the attack roll is being made."

So, that answers that.

Leo_the_Rat
05-09-2012, 01:23 PM
Forces of Cryx page 62, Under Arcane Nexus, "When a witch casts a spell... Witches can channel spells normally....". This is the next line after what Vex quotes. Why would the rules state this unless they were channels for the spell being cast?

PxDnNinja
05-09-2012, 01:29 PM
Forces of Cryx page 62, Under Arcane Nexus, "When a witch casts a spell... Witches can channel spells normally....". This is the next line after what Vex quotes. Why would the rules state this unless they were channels for the spell being cast?

Arc Nodes.

The controlling warcaster is the one to be allowed to channel through a node, and with multiple solo models acting as a single warcaster, that line says basically that the witches can use arc nodes as normal. Also if the jack that can turn enemies into arc nodes is in your BG, it has effect with that as well (can't recall the jacks name).

Vex
05-09-2012, 01:46 PM
Arc Nodes.

The controlling warcaster is the one to be allowed to channel through a node, and with multiple solo models acting as a single warcaster, that line says basically that the witches can use arc nodes as normal. Also if the jack that can turn enemies into arc nodes is in your BG, it has effect with that as well (can't recall the jacks name).

Correct.

As I stated previously, the Coven do not channel spells through the Egregore.

Leo_the_Rat
05-09-2012, 03:11 PM
Fair enough. I don't use Cryx but I just misinterpreted what was written I guess.