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Qyx
02-15-2010, 10:05 PM
Greetings!

New to the game, new to the forums (2nd post!), and loving it so far! After doing a search I couldn't find a direct answer, but posted this question on a related thread on the Castigator (thanks to Mutton for the only reply) https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?t=9796&page=2.

Later I realized that perhaps this question is better suited for the "Rules Questions" forum so I apologize for posting again and hopefully I can get a definitive answer here.

Combustion - "This model can make additional melee attacks after making this special attack."

Does this mean the Castigator still gets it's first 2 initial attacks free w/out spending focus since the Combustion special attack is attached to the model and not the weapon? Hopefully this makes up for the fact it can't charge & combust for that very same reason =)

Seems this extra statement included in the description matches FoS's Holy Fervor Imprint: "immediately after the attack is resolved this model can make one additional melee attack" which allows for a free additional attack w/out spending focus correct?

Isn't it true that ANY model making a special attack can always buy additional attacks anyway? That's why I'm thinking this statement makes combusion and holy fervor exceptions to this rule?

Thanks!

brotherscott
02-16-2010, 12:14 AM
The special (*) attack takes the place of the initial attacks. Effectively, the Castigator gives up its initial attacks to make a special attack.

It can then buy additional attacks at one focus per attack.

ImpactHammer
02-16-2010, 03:11 AM
And yes, you CAN charge and use Combustion, you "just" lose the bonus damage die.

ResurrectioN
02-16-2010, 03:22 AM
And yes, you CAN charge and use Combustion, you "just" lose the bonus damage die.

No you CAN'T.
You must make charge attack with melee weapon and combustion is not one.

ImpactHammer
02-16-2010, 04:32 AM
No you CAN'T.
You must make charge attack with melee weapon and combustion is not one.

Yes you can. You can choose not to make the charge attack and opt for a special attack instead. I'll look it up in the rulebook to be sure, but this has never been changed.

Dino-Czar
02-16-2010, 05:26 AM
Yes you can. You can choose not to make the charge attack and opt for a special attack instead. I'll look it up in the rulebook to be sure, but this has never been changed.

No, you really can't. *attacks can be made after a charge If and Only If they are being made with a melee weapon. Combustion is not made with a melee weapon.

TheUnknownMercenary
02-16-2010, 05:31 AM
ImpactHammer, you are incorrect about the Castigator and Combustion. In order to make a special attack as a charge attack, the special attack has to be an ability of the melee weapon. Combustion is a special attack ability on the Castigator.
See pg 47 Last Paragraph on the left side column, last sentence right above the Charge Direction Picture.

Hiratu
02-16-2010, 06:19 AM
This answer can also be found in the Retribution force book. The Phoenix heavy jack also has combustion. The tactical tip for combustion in the force book states it CANNOT be used on a charge.

Nafael
02-16-2010, 06:38 AM
Mark I is dead. No more charging and burning for Menoth or us.

Qyx
02-16-2010, 07:04 AM
The special (*) attack takes the place of the initial attacks. Effectively, the Castigator gives up its initial attacks to make a special attack.

It can then buy additional attacks at one focus per attack.

Thanks for the reply Brotherscott. I guess my confusion stems from the fact that you always get additional attacks after a special attack if you buy them, so why the additional emphasis on additional attacks? Doesn't FoS get the free additional attack without spending focus with near identical wording?

Thanks!

blue loki
02-16-2010, 07:17 AM
You do not always get additional attacks after making a special attack.
You can purchase additional attacks of the same base type as the special attack afterwards.

If you make a special ranged attack, you can buy more normal ranged attacks (following ROF restricitons).
If you make a special melee attack, you can buy more normal melee attacks.
If you make a special attack that is neither a melee attack or ranged attack, you cannot buy additional normal attacks since no model has normal attacks that are not melee or ranged.

The special wording of Combustion allows you to buy additional melee attacks even though you made a non-melee special attack.

Qyx
02-16-2010, 09:05 AM
You do not always get additional attacks after making a special attack.
You can purchase additional attacks of the same base type as the special attack afterwards.

If you make a special ranged attack, you can buy more normal ranged attacks (following ROF restricitons).
If you make a special melee attack, you can buy more normal melee attacks.
If you make a special attack that is neither a melee attack or ranged attack, you cannot buy additional normal attacks since no model has normal attacks that are not melee or ranged.

The special wording of Combustion allows you to buy additional melee attacks even though you made a non-melee special attack.

Oh wow. that explains alot. I was not aware that buying additional attacks after the Special Attack was limited to where the Special Attack originates.

So without that extra wording, any Special Attack NOT originating from a weapon does not allow you to buy additional attacks. Good to know.

Thanks again Blue Loki!

ryandebraal
02-16-2010, 07:27 PM
Page Number please, I have also never heard of that rule

whats82
02-16-2010, 07:31 PM
Page Number please, I have also never heard of that rule

which one ?

ryandebraal
02-16-2010, 07:38 PM
additional attacks can only be performed with weapons used in the (*) attack

whats82
02-16-2010, 07:47 PM
That's fairly straight forward, a *attack is still considered range or melee based on which weapon it is attached to, and unless a model have virtuoso rule it can not make melee or range attack in the same turn. So a thunderhead pulse can not buy melee attacks on a knocked down model in his melee range.

P49 has it - unless noted otherwise, a model cannot make both melee and ranged attacks in the same combat action.

vino1967
02-17-2010, 07:51 AM
Thanks for binging up the topic Qyx, we were discussing the same awkward wording and implications just yesterday at the local gameshop. This has proven to be an enlightening thread. Unless otherwise officially erratacised, I will go with Blue Loki's interpretiation. Even being a menoth player, i felt the "free attack" interpretation was a little overboard.

Qyx
02-17-2010, 10:30 AM
Thanks for binging up the topic Qyx, we were discussing the same awkward wording and implications just yesterday at the local gameshop. This has proven to be an enlightening thread. Unless otherwise officially erratacised, I will go with Blue Loki's interpretiation. Even being a menoth player, i felt the "free attack" interpretation was a little overboard.

My pleasure Vino! As a followup, I actually found & verified what Blue Loki said in the Prime MKII hardcover. I don't have the page number with me, but I'll post it when I get the chance!

A Press Ganger also verified for me that the Fire of Salvation (FoS) additional attack from the Holy Fervor imprint is free!

Peace.

ScrapCupcake
02-17-2010, 10:47 AM
additional attacks can only be performed with weapons used in the (*) attack

It isn't that you can't make attacks with other weapons, but you just have to follow the normal rules for making attacks. You cannot normally make ranged and melee attacks in the same activation. The Virtuoso rule exists for this reason.

So lets say you have a ranged attack, an open fist, and an axe with *thresher on it on one warjack. If you made the *thresher attack, you'd have made a melee attack that activation, so you could not make a ranged attack. But you could buy additional melee attacks.

Or lets say the Thunderhead, with it's *attack electrical pulse. That's a *attack on its ranged weapon, so it would be unable to make melee attacks in the same activation (not usually an issue since it doesn't have gunfighter and can't make ranged attacks while it is engaged).

Check the Devistator and its *Rain of Death for another attack that is worded the same way for the same reasons as Combustion.

ImpactHammer
02-18-2010, 11:45 PM
ImpactHammer, you are incorrect about the Castigator and Combustion. In order to make a special attack as a charge attack, the special attack has to be an ability of the melee weapon. Combustion is a special attack ability on the Castigator.
See pg 47 Last Paragraph on the left side column, last sentence right above the Charge Direction Picture.

Ah ok, I see where I got it wrong. Thanks for pointing it out, I'd hate to abuse the rules.