View Full Version : Necromancy Vs Lamentation question

07-03-2012, 04:47 AM
As the title suggests I am unsure whether the Lamentation spell will affect the Deathjack's Necromancy ability, I have done numerous searches and not found what I was looking for so apologies if this question has been raised and answered previously - if so please link me to the relevant thread.

For your information:

"Enemy models pay double the focus or fury point cost to cast or upkeep spells while in this model's control area".

"While this model is in its controller's control area, it can spend focus points to cast its controller's spells. When this model casts its controller's spells, the controller is considered to have cast them but this model is their point of origin. When making a magic attack roll, this model uses its controller's FOCUS".

So the question I have is whether "the controller is considered to have cast" the spells means that the position of Deathjack in relation to Lamentation is irrelevant, just the controller or whether Deathjack is the "enemy model" paying the cost in focus and therefore must pay double?

My thoughts:
Lamentation obviously doesn't affect models' casting spells which do not pay a focus such as Skarlocks, Woldwardens (Geomancy) and units such as the Withershadow Combine, but in Deathjack's case a focus cost is paid.

I'm not sure what the part about 'the controller is considered to have cast them' means, and if for example the controller couldn't cast spells but Deathjack could (Severius1 feat or Croe's Hiss gun for example) what would happen?

Any thoughts would greatly be appreciated, thanks in anticipation.


07-03-2012, 04:54 AM
Deathjack is the model casting the spells. "The controller is considered to have cast" means that after the spell has been cast, it is considered to have been cast by your warcaster. This is so the warcaster can upkeep the spell, not have more than one of the same upkeep out etc. At the moment of casting it is Deathjack doing the spell, so if he is within Lamentation range he pays double.

07-03-2012, 05:03 AM
I'll try and clear up the Deathjack a bit for you. Much of this applies to the Skarlock as well, because Spell Slave is a similarly written ability.

When the Deathjack casts a spell, it is the caster of the spell and the point of origin for it. Any spell or effect that triggers "whenever a model casts a spell" is triggered by the DJ doing so. The line about "the controller is considered to have cast" is a spell-tracking reference, and in most cases, is only important when tracking upkeeps. As an example: Warwitch Deneghra has the Deathjack in her battlegroup. The Deathjack spends 3 focus to cast Crippling Grasp on an enemy unit. The Deathjack is the caster of the spell, but as far as determining who the spell belongs to for upkeep purposes, Deneghra is considered to have cast it. (Preventing you from putting two Crippling Grasps out there.)

It is also worth noting that because the Deathjack is the one performing the casting action, that abilities that reduce the warcaster's casting cost alone, such as the Witch Coven of Garlghast Perfect Conjunction, or Lord Exhumator Scaverous' feat, Black Gate, do not affect the casting costs of the Deathjack.

So, how does this apply to Lamentation? Well, Lamentation is straightforward - enemy models pay double focus to cast or upkeep spells. If Lamentation changed the actual COST stat of a spell, the Deathjack would not have to pay the increase unless the warcaster itself is affected by Lamentation - because the Deathjack does not itself control the spell list. However, Lamentation doesn't do that, it just says to pay twice the amount. So, it must pay twice the focus amount to cast a spell while affected by Lamentation. (And the warcaster must pay 2 focus to upkeep said spell only if they're in the Lamentation area.)

07-03-2012, 05:12 AM
Many thanks for the swift responses and clearing up the bit I was struggling with - fantastic!:)