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huffer0001
07-22-2012, 05:53 PM
Hi I thought I saw a post a while back about pVayl's oraculus being "infinite range" because of the automatically hit trumps automatically miss. With the targeting a model outside of range being an automatic miss, and the oraculus deal, just wondering if there has been a ruling. I have searched and cannot find it, poor search fu i guess. Could someone lead me in the right direction.
Thanks.

Karl Eller
07-22-2012, 05:59 PM
Warmachine Prime Appendix A: Timing, p245:
1. Determine what the attacker can target.
2. Resolve effects that occur before attacking.
3. Declare the attack and its target.
4 If the attack is a ranged or magic attack, check the range to the target. If the target is out of range, the attack automatically misses; do not make any attack rolls, and go to step 7.
5. Resolve effects that occur when a model is targeted by an attack, such as effects that cause an attack to hit or miss automatically.
6. [snip]
7. Resolve effects that cause the attack to hit a model other than the target automatically.
[other stuff not relevant]

Checking for range happens at Step 4, if the model is out of range you skip Step 5 (where you check for automatic hits/misses) and Step 6 (where attack rolls happen).

Ergo, out of range trumps automatic hits.

Spaero
07-22-2012, 10:21 PM
Karl's answer also fits with the general rule that "cannot" trumps "must" across the board:

Special rules stating that something "cannot" happen override rules stating that the same thing "can" or "must" occur. (Rules directing or describing actions or circumstances are treated as if they used "must." Examples include "Gain an additional die," "Knocked down models stand up," and "This model gains cover."
So if you consider that an auto-miss is a "cannot hit" situation and an auto-hit is a "must hit" situation, the miss trumps the hit. Sorry mate!

Sheer_Falacy
07-22-2012, 11:03 PM
Karl's answer also fits with the general rule that "cannot" trumps "must" across the board:

So if you consider that an auto-miss is a "cannot hit" situation and an auto-hit is a "must hit" situation, the miss trumps the hit. Sorry mate!

That's not accurate. Automatically miss is not the same as can not hit, and automatically hit beats automatically miss (see page 61). Out of range is a special type of automiss that does trump autohit, though it's very hard to tell without looking at the Appendix because I don't think it mentions it anywhere besides there.

Spaero
07-22-2012, 11:24 PM
*Gasp!* I am le wrong?

/reads pg61 and Appendix

/also reads pg56

/hangs head in shame

I am le wrong.