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View Full Version : IFP Mini-Feat question. Possible IFP MIssile!



ratch
09-05-2012, 10:17 AM
Ok so i was thinking about this at 3am. i posted a Army list idea on Dakka but i am not sure if what they say are accurate.

The Mini-feat is thus:
"Defensive Formation: Once per game during its unit's activation, this model can use Defensive Formation. Immediately after models in this unit complete their activations this turn, models in this unit other than this one can make a full advance, any previous orders this unit was issued expire, and this unit is affected by the Shield Wall Order."

So with eIrusk that means played right i can get a 23" threat range with my IFP. Tactical Supremacy is on the IFP. I activate the IFP, the Officer pops the Mini-Feat, then gives the Run order. all the models finish, Mini-Feat takes affect giving me an additional 6" and Shield Wall. end of my Turn Tactical Supremacy moves them another 3". the IFP have Reach so we take 2+12+6+3=23.

Barring possible Errata to either Mini-Feat usage or the Mini-Feat itself, i fail to see how this is illegal in any way. the key being popping the Mini-Feat as soon as you activate the unit. In a Unit running is an Order, the Mini-Feat removes that "Debuff" from the unit. so your IFP are 21" from their point in Shield Wall?

I am not saying this is an every game kind of tactic, but if your in need of tying up your enemy lines fast so they cannot drop the ball on you, this is a nice option to have. even without eIrusk its still 20" threat range. Against a Heavy Ranged list like Cygnar or Ret this could Tie up the gunline on turn 1 easy.

C&C? Clarifications? Errata? Please gimme some input here.

Davian2K5
09-05-2012, 10:27 AM
Looking through it, I don't see anything illegal. That looks pretty normal for how the IFP UA works; it allows you to break Shield Wall, but then recover it, on the turn you might need it. I'm fairly certain that's the way that is supposed to work!

It looks like you read it correctly, and there are no stacking effects - the mini-feat and Tactical Supremacy work separately, so I don't see where it would be a problem.

ratch
09-05-2012, 10:33 AM
Looking through it, I don't see anything illegal. That looks pretty normal for how the IFP UA works; it allows you to break Shield Wall, but then recover it, on the turn you might need it. I'm fairly certain that's the way that is supposed to work!

It looks like you read it correctly, and there are no stacking effects - the mini-feat and Tactical Supremacy work separately, so I don't see where it would be a problem.

The only thing that could stop this from happening would be an Errata to the Mini-Feat or how it is used. For instance if they say that using a Mini-Feat is a (*)Action. then this is null because of how (*)Actions work. however that would defeat the purpose of it being a Mini-Feat, they would have to change the way regular Feats work in order to accommodate the change to Mini-Feats.

solkan
09-05-2012, 10:34 AM
If all models in the unit run, then no model in the unit has completed its action. As a result, no benefit would be gained.

Edit: For the sake of clarity, you have misquoted the ability due to the errata. Defensive formation says "... after models in this unit have completed their actions this turn, ..."

The models have to complete their actions, not their activations. If a model runs, its activation ends immediately, and it does not perform or complete an action.

Don't forget about the errata. It's already been errata'd.

warlorddrax
09-05-2012, 10:35 AM
yes, they can move that far.

No, they are probably not making any attacks after moving that far unless you have something that can make them attack outside of activation.

if you want to send up a sacrificial unit up there to jam and tie up the enemy army, it is a great idea. just expect that it isn't going to last very long. but often one turn is all you need.

Coffee_twitch
09-05-2012, 10:38 AM
This is how it used to be played, before the recent errata... which nerfed it. I believe it is the same with the light cavalry.

solkan
09-05-2012, 10:48 AM
Don't forget to see the stickied thread with the Infernal explanation: https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?41880-Clarification-of-Defensive-Formation&p=599906&viewfull=1#post599906


Example 2:
All run. None of them gets to make their DF move and none are affected by Shield Wall as no one in the unit completed its action and thus never triggered DF.

ratch
09-05-2012, 10:50 AM
Thank you Solkan for the link. that explains it and clarifies what i was asking.

Valander
09-05-2012, 10:57 AM
I don't see how this is the case. Units recieve Orders, the Officer Gives a Run order, thus he is using his Actions, a Run consists of both the Move and Standard Actions. therefore actions are completed.
Incorrect:


A model that runs advances up to twice its current SPD in inches. A model that uses its normal movement to run cannot make an action, cast spells, or use feats that activation, and its activation ends immediately after it ends its movement. A model that forfeits its action cannot run during its normal movement that activation.You are required to have not forfeited your action to run, but that is not the same as "a run is both movement and action"; the second sentence indicates this.



Where is the Errata? i followed the link in the "Official Errata" thread but the link is broken.Second post in the Official Errata sticky:

Note:

The above link is temporarily broken. You can get the errata here: http://files.privateerpress.com/op/errata/errata.pdf

bloodspiff
09-05-2012, 10:58 AM
\
a Run consists of both the Move and Standard Actions


This is not true. check prime p46 under the run section: "a model that run cannot make action"(...)

Furthermore, a model activation ends after a run. Thus, if a model run it cannot do something he was suppose to do "after having completed his actions"...

If you want the pikemens to have shield wall, you can only move them up to 15" (succesfull charge, complete (or forfeit) action then advance).

Spiff

EDIT: ninja'd by the infernal penguin.

ViperClaw
09-05-2012, 12:49 PM
The officer does not benefit from the move so be carefull on moving the outer men of the unit. If they are out of his command they won't prevent a charge or run past your flanks as out of formation don't get to make free strikes.