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View Full Version : New player seeking clarification - some basic but frustrating questions



Sariusmonk
10-29-2012, 04:12 PM
Hey, I'm pretty new to Hordes but been reading through the rules steadily and played about 4 games now. Unfortunately everyone I play against has a different take on the rules, so very often I'm having to change how I play depending on who I'm playing. I'm sure most of my questions will have easy answers, yet due to showing the rules to people I'm playing with their opinions don't change, so another voice on my side would help clear it up for me. Apologies if these are answered elsewhere but I'm not too great at searching for rather specific subjects.

1. Casting and running - It is my belief from what I read that if you cast a spell you are unable to run on that same turn, other players seem to believe you can cast spells and then run.

2. Specific scenario free strike - I had a scenario where I had a shredder with its back to an enemy troll with its 2" reach, during my turn I turned the shredder to face the troll, advanced into base to base contact, and then continued to advance within the front arc to the other side of the model (essentially sliding from its right side, to its left) - I felt since the shredder stayed within the front arc it wasn't open to a free strike but my opponent seemed to feel otherwise and my shredder died as a result. Not sure on this one, either way, I never left the front arc of the mini but I travelled within it, if that helps?

3. + SPD vs + Movement - This one has been debated every game, and so far we've not settled on a verdict. Since some rules give +2 movement and some give +2 SPD - After applying Rabid to a Shredder (+2 SPD) to become SPD 8, when performing a run does the total distance now equal 16" or is it simply 14" (standard run + 2") - Somewhere in the rules made me feel it would become the 16" total, yet someone found elsewhere in the book that things are multiplied first and then additions made, which makes him feel it'd be the 14" total.

4. Blight Bringer [Saeryn - Legion of Everblight] - Not sure how to describe this one, yet somehow I feel in one game things weren't as they should be. The description says a 5" AoE on a target friendly model, to determine this I use the 5" blast template. In another game somehow my opponent using a tape measure, measuring 2.5" around (which mathematically is the same) used that to determine the AoE and managed to be "just out of range" of what the template had "easily in range" - Not sure on that, feel swindled. Additionally it is my belief that a friendly warbeast with this effect that moves, brings the AoE with him, although it does no damage after initially landing, on the opponents turn if they enter or end activation inside the warbeasts 5" AoE they take 1 point of corrosion damage. Is my understanding of this correct or does the AoE remain in place where it was cast?

5. Fury Management - I have no idea *why* this is the case, but only one player is on my side with this one. From my understanding you can discard fury during your warlocks activation, in order to make room to leech in your maintenence phase. Most players at my local store seem to believe you can discard fury in your maintenence phase and THEN leech fury off your beasts. Essentially their version means you never need to discard on your turn, since you'll be doing it in maintenence, and thus always have an easy decision to hold onto fury. My belief is that holding onto fury means you begin your maintenence phase with that fury and can only leech back up to your total, thus making the fury element of the game a bigger tactical endevour.


Apologies if most of these are simple, but since I've been told I'm wrong most of the time, yet I feel my interpretation of the rules is correct, some confirmations of rules are much appreciated.

viggo3000
10-29-2012, 04:28 PM
Sorry i dont have my rule book with me so i cant give detailed answers or reference to pages.

1: You can not cast and run. You can not feat and run. You CAN use abilities that you do once per activation (boomhowlers 4+ tough, zealots minifeat)
2: No free strike.
3: A spd 6 model with +2 spd runs 16". A sod 6 model with +2 movement runs 14"
4: My legion fu weak.
5: You cant discard fury in the maintence phase. that would be broken as ****.

Hellstorm
10-29-2012, 04:34 PM
4) I believe that it remains in place. It never states that it moves with the model, it is just centered on the model as its initial placement.

All of viggo's other points are correct.

EDIT:
1) Page 78
2) Page 51
3) Page 46
4) Legion of Everblight Page 44
5) Page 76 and 77

Sariusmonk
10-29-2012, 04:47 PM
Thanks for the clarity, so appart from Blight Bringer the rest of the rules I've been playing are correct, which is good to know.

One more that sprung to mind, and though I've found on page 65. of the smaller MKII rules, could use confirmation on unit casting.

So, for example, my hex hunters have "Magic Ability 6" - To cast one of their spells I used 6 + 2d6 vs Def. However in one game my opponent told me I need to roll 2d6 and get under my magic ability 6, and THEN roll 6 +2d6 to hit, essentially making most of my spells fail even their chance to hit. I went with it since I've been playing for 2 weeks while he's been playing for years, yet I feel he's got it wrong on this one. Unless it states somewhere else in the rulebook, I can only find it referencing a Magic Ability resolved by 2d6 + Magic Ability to determine success.

Hellstorm
10-29-2012, 04:54 PM
Yeah, that's wrong. P. 85 bottom of the first column.

Sariusmonk
10-29-2012, 04:55 PM
I don't have the large rulebook to hand, but I'll take note of the page numbers incase it comes up in the store and they'll have one at hand. Otherwise I'll attempt to find the corresponding page on my smaller rulebook. Thanks for the replies.

Natetehaggresar
10-29-2012, 04:56 PM
Thanks for the clarity, so appart from Blight Bringer the rest of the rules I've been playing are correct, which is good to know.

One more that sprung to mind, and though I've found on page 65. of the smaller MKII rules, could use confirmation on unit casting.

So, for example, my hex hunters have "Magic Ability 6" - To cast one of their spells I used 6 + 2d6 vs Def. However in one game my opponent told me I need to roll 2d6 and get under my magic ability 6, and THEN roll 6 +2d6 to hit, essentially making most of my spells fail even their chance to hit. I went with it since I've been playing for 2 weeks while he's been playing for years, yet I feel he's got it wrong on this one. Unless it states somewhere else in the rulebook, I can only find it referencing a Magic Ability resolved by 2d6 + Magic Ability to determine success.

1. I just wanted to agree with everyone else. No running and feating or casting spells. Free strikes are only triggered when you leave melee range.

You're correct that you multiply then add, but looking at the wording is important as well. When you run you move twice your speed stat., not twice your movement. So speed 6+2 = speed 8 times 2 = 16. Movement additions like everyone said are added in after you calculate what your "run distance" is. Also note that bonus to speed work out of activation like on eThags feat, but bonuses to move do not.

2. Rules Forum rules require 1 question or very closely related question per thread to help with forum searches.

3 You just make the attack at magic 6. They're talking about the rules for skill checks which people sometimes confuse with casting spells. The only skill checks left in the game are repairs.

Hellstorm
10-29-2012, 04:58 PM
I don't have the large rulebook to hand, but I'll take note of the page numbers incase it comes up in the store and they'll have one at hand. Otherwise I'll attempt to find the corresponding page on my smaller rulebook. Thanks for the replies.

they are on the same page numbers.

Ravenshadow
10-29-2012, 05:00 PM
You should probably start asking these guys to show rules referrences since they've been wrong a lot, or take your book and ask them to show you. It is indeed 6 + 2D6 vs Def to hit with the hex hunters.

Sariusmonk
10-29-2012, 05:03 PM
Ah I see, I did attempt a search for my answers but as I said, being rather specific I struggled. I should have read the posting rules more clearly, in future I will separate questions into different threads if need be, although I'm beginning to think my initial instinct is mostly correct so will trust my interpretation of the rules more, which will eradicate most questions I'd encounter. Apologies for the multi-questioned thread but thank you all for your answers all the same.

Sariusmonk
10-29-2012, 05:04 PM
they are on the same page numbers.

Not for me, for instance "Page 85" is the index and no reference to magic ability, for me that was on page 65.

TheUnknownMercenary
10-29-2012, 05:08 PM
Next time ask only one question per thread, it is one of the Rules of the Rules Forum. Second, let's keep the *'s that are meant to imply a word out of the Rules Forum. Spelling errors can happen but let's not do it on purpose.

1) A model that runs cannot make an action, cast spells, or use it's feat and the reverse is also true, if the model casts a spell, makes an action or use it's feat cannot run. If an ability states that it cannot be used if the model runs then if the model uses it then it cannot run. PAGE 46

2) If the model never leaves the melee range or the line of sight of the enemy model than the enemy model cannot make a free strike against it. Moving around while staying inside the enemy model's melee range and line of sight will not cause a free strike. PAGE 51

3) A bonus to SPD adds to the model's SPD anytime it moves, (during or out of activation). A bonus to movement only applies when a model is moving during its movement portion of its activation. Also a bonus to SPD is added before you double for running, while the bonus for movement is added after you double for running. PAGE 46
Example: A model with SPD 6 gets a bonus of +2 SPD. Both during it's activation and out of activation, it can advance (6+2) 8 inches, charge (6+2+3) 11 inches or run (6+2=8x2) 16 inches.
A model with SPD 6 gets a bonus of +2 to movement. This is applied only its movement portion of its activation. Advances (6+2) 8, Charge (6+3+2) 11 or Run (6x2= 12+2) 14 inches.
A model with SPD 6 gets a +2 to SPD and +2 to Movement. To figure the numbers for out of activation you only use the +2 to SPD since the bonus to movement will not be used out of activation. When the model moves during its movement portion of its acitvation it will add up like this Advances (6+2SPD+2MOVE) 10, Charge (6+2SPD+3+2MOVE) 13, and Run (6+2=8x2=16+2MOVe) 18 inches.

4) FIRST, When it says to use a 5" AOE, you use the 5" blast template that is located in the book, any AOE uses the these templates.
For Blight Bringer, the AOE does not move with the model. When you place the AOE it is centered on the model but stays were it was placed if the model moves.

5) A warlock can only discard fury during it's activation. PAGE 77. Perhaps some of your players are confusing warlocks with how warcasters are played.

Sariusmonk
10-29-2012, 05:14 PM
Regarding the miss spelling of queries, I only realised after the *'s appeared, so apologies for that, was not intentional at all. Regarding the rest, thanks for the answers and noted the mistakes on my part. Sorry for the inconviniences caused.

TheUnknownMercenary
10-29-2012, 05:16 PM
Thanks for the clarity, so appart from Blight Bringer the rest of the rules I've been playing are correct, which is good to know.

One more that sprung to mind, and though I've found on page 65. of the smaller MKII rules, could use confirmation on unit casting.

So, for example, my hex hunters have "Magic Ability 6" - To cast one of their spells I used 6 + 2d6 vs Def. However in one game my opponent told me I need to roll 2d6 and get under my magic ability 6, and THEN roll 6 +2d6 to hit, essentially making most of my spells fail even their chance to hit. I went with it since I've been playing for 2 weeks while he's been playing for years, yet I feel he's got it wrong on this one. Unless it states somewhere else in the rulebook, I can only find it referencing a Magic Ability resolved by 2d6 + Magic Ability to determine success.

Sounds like your opponent is confusing a skill check with a Magic Ability. A skill check is when a special action has a skill value attached to it, like Repair [6] means you need to make a roll (2d6) and get a 6 or less total. Using a magic ability does not require a skill check. The only time you roll when using a Magic Ability is if you are making an attack and you use the Magic Ability number indicated on the card like this Magic Ability [7] which means you roll 2d6 and add 7 to the roll vs the DEF of the target model. PAGE 85

TheUnknownMercenary
10-29-2012, 05:23 PM
Regarding the miss spelling of queries, I only realised after the *'s appeared, so apologies for that, was not intentional at all. Regarding the rest, thanks for the answers and noted the mistakes on my part. Sorry for the inconviniences caused.

I fixed your thread title, probanly not what you originally want but it got rid of the *'s and my comment about *'s was not because of you, it was for one of the other posters. It is no inconvenience, it is just that by asking one question per thread makes it easier for others to search for answers.

Lachlan the Mad
10-29-2012, 07:23 PM
Sounds like your opponent is confusing a skill check with a Magic Ability. A skill check is when a special action has a skill value attached to it, like Repair [6] means you need to make a roll (2d6) and get a 6 or less total. Using a magic ability does not require a skill check. The only time you roll when using a Magic Ability is if you are making an attack and you use the Magic Ability number indicated on the card like this Magic Ability [7] which means you roll 2d6 and add 7 to the roll vs the DEF of the target model. PAGE 85

Do you think you could put that on the list of things to change when MkIII comes around? Maybe make it so to hit stats are in [X] and skill checks are {X} or something?

viggo3000
10-30-2012, 01:02 AM
I think that magic ability vs skill check is pretty clear when you are familiar with the rules.
Stormsmiths also use skil checks.

TheUnknownMercenary
10-30-2012, 04:20 AM
Locking this thread as the original questions have been answered.