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Locrian
12-29-2012, 12:09 PM
According to this ruling (https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?96498-Forest-and-new-errata-confusion&p=1291973&viewfull=1#post1291973), a model within a forest benefits from concealment regardless of whether the forest is actually obscuring the model from its attacker. Further down in the thread it's established that a model does not benefit from concealment if it is standing outside the forest even if the forest does obscure part of its base from the attacker. So in the diagram below, model A should have concealment from the attacker, and model B should not. (Please let me know if I've misinterpreted this.)

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8217/8322057185_98b887d66e.jpg

Do cloud effects behave the same way? The rules for cloud effects state, "a model inside a cloud effect gains concealment" (Primal p. 69). So if the forest in this diagram were a cloud effect instead, would it still be true that model A has concealment and B does not?

Skornehole
12-29-2012, 12:17 PM
Interesting... looking forward to a vet to chime in!

Emberwild
12-29-2012, 12:30 PM
A model within 1" of concealing terrain feature that obscures any portion of it volume from an attacker gains +2 to DEF against ranged and magic attack rolls. (pg 57)
I think the cloud effect only grants concealment to a model in the AOE and blocks LOS to models behind the the cloud. so in your example A and B will get concealment if B is within 1" of the forest but if it is a cloud then B would not gain concealment.

TheUnknownMercenary
12-29-2012, 01:02 PM
Right out of the rulebook:


A forest is rough terrain and provides concealment to a model with any part of its base inside its perimeter.


In addition to being affected by a cloud's special rules, a model inside a cloud effect gains concealment.

In order to gain concealment from a forest or a cloud effect the model most be inside the effect/terrain.

hamsandwich50
12-29-2012, 01:03 PM
The thread that is linked in the first post shows why B does not gain concealment even if it is within 1'' because the forest special rules override the 1'' rule.

TheUnknownMercenary
12-29-2012, 01:22 PM
A model within 1" of concealing terrain feature that obscures any portion of it volume from an attacker gains +2 to DEF against ranged and magic attack rolls. (pg 57)
I think the cloud effect only grants concealment to a model in the AOE and blocks LOS to models behind the the cloud. so in your example A and B will get concealment if B is within 1" of the forest but if it is a cloud then B would not gain concealment.


The rules for forest are different and model B will NOT gain concealment for being within one inch, the model must have some portion of its base inside the forest terrain

Locrian
12-31-2012, 12:06 PM
In order to gain concealment from a forest or a cloud effect the model most be inside the effect/terrain.

Just to be perfectly clear, "inside" means within, then, and not completely within? Sorry to be nitpicky, but I play with cloud effects a lot, and I'm just not sure if it's legitimate for me to be claiming concealment from them with only the back part of my base within the effect. :)

TheUnknownMercenary
12-31-2012, 12:28 PM
As I have already posted above, both rules state inside, not completely inside, just like it states in the forest quote, a model with any part of its base inside the perimeter.

Locrian
12-31-2012, 12:32 PM
Great. Thanks for the clarification!

jandrese
12-31-2012, 12:48 PM
The rules for forest are different and model B will NOT gain concealment for being within one inch, the model must have some portion of its base inside the forest terrain

I'm confused. How is a forest not a "concealing terrain feature"?

TheUnknownMercenary
12-31-2012, 01:04 PM
I'm confused. How is a forest not a "concealing terrain feature"?

Because in the two paragraphs on forests it does not state that it is a concealing terrain feature. Forests do two things, give concealment to a model with any part of its base inside the forest and blocks Line of Sight to models more than 3 inches into a forest/on the other side of a forest template.

The rules for Forests, Hills, Water and Trenches have specific rules on how to use them. Hills, water and trenches also do not prorvide any benefits to any models near them, the models have to be inside those terrain pieces to benefit from their rules.

SageofLodoss
12-31-2012, 01:08 PM
I'm confused. How is a forest not a "concealing terrain feature"?

"Concealing Terrain Feature" is I believe a generic term used to describe things like low Shrubbery walls and bushes that the players have both agreed to play as being similar to walls/etc, which normally provide Cover, but since these are lighter features which would not stop attacks as much, they are assigned Concealement instead. A common slang for this is "soft cover."

Forest, meanwhile, have their own definition for terrain, and the method by which they provide concealment is explained in that entry.

jandrese
12-31-2012, 01:44 PM
Because in the two paragraphs on forests it does not state that it is a concealing terrain feature. Forests do two things, give concealment to a model with any part of its base inside the forest and blocks Line of Sight to models more than 3 inches into a forest/on the other side of a forest template.

The rules for Forests, Hills, Water and Trenches have specific rules on how to use them. Hills, water and trenches also do not prorvide any benefits to any models near them, the models have to be inside those terrain pieces to benefit from their rules.

I guess I was confused because it was a terrain feature that provides concealment, not a concealing terrain feature.