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View Full Version : Thunderbolt vs Massive



DisasterGenius
01-29-2013, 02:30 PM
I had previously assumed that Massive prevented the movement from slam and push, but would still take the damage. However, the recent thread about slams and Collosals (see this thread (https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?139470-Grissel-Bloodsong-and-colossals-gargantuans)) has made it clear that the Massive rule on Collosals and Gargantuans make them immune to all parts of slam attacks - and cannot even be targeted by such attacks.

Along those lines, I would assume that a Collosal or Gargantuan cannot be targeted by a weapon with Tunderbolt - or am i misinterpreting something?

The Thunderbolt weapon ability states
' Enemy models hit are pushed d3" directly away from the attacking model...'

oconnor0
01-29-2013, 02:39 PM
A push is not a slam.

ForsakenPoptart
01-29-2013, 02:43 PM
The model with Massive may be targeted by the weapon with Thunderbolt, but the Thunderbolt rule specifically will not apply. You can still target the model and do damage with the weapon.

solkan
01-29-2013, 02:46 PM
'cannot be slammed' means two things:
1. The model cannot be targeted by a slam power attack
2. being slammed (the result of an effect which says 'slam') has no effect on the model.

The same thing goes for 'cannot be pushed':
1. The model cannot be targeted by a push power attack.
2. being pushed (the result of an effect which says 'push') has no effect on the model.

If you use a weapon with the Thunderbolt rule against a model that cannot be pushed, the Thunderbolt rules are going to have no effect. The weapon itself is still going to inflict damage because the damage is not part of the push effect. Unlike being slammed which has a mandatory damage component.

yshsalas
01-29-2013, 02:46 PM
How is that different than a chain attack: smite? Which has been ruled to not work at all against colossals.

Warfrog
01-29-2013, 02:53 PM
You are targeting it with a weapon with a push effect. It will be immune to the push effect but not the weapon damage. Its not immune to being attacked by a weapon.

How this differs from the slam ruling it when a weapon causes a slam, the damage roll is typicality a slam damage roll. Therefor the model would be immune to the damage. There is no such thing as a push damage roll so it wont be immune to damage from weapons that cause push. This didn't prevent you from targeting it with this weapon as an attack with the weapon isn't a slam or push although they can still have those effects.

Additionally they also can't be targeted by push or slam Power Attacks.

Invaderzahn
01-29-2013, 02:57 PM
Chain attack: smite - If this model hits the same model with both its initial attacks with this weapon, after resolving the attacks it can immediately make one additional attack against that model. If the attack hits the model is slammed d6" directly away from this model. the POW of the slam damage roll is equal to STR of this model + the POW of this weapon. The POW of collateral damage is equal to STR of this model.

colossals can't be targeted by slams the 3rd attack generates a slam. I suppose you could still roll to see if the 3rd attach hits but the slam and slam damage would be negated by the "Massive" rule

yshsalas
01-29-2013, 03:00 PM
I know it doesn't work. Solkan cleared up why.

DisasterGenius
01-29-2013, 03:33 PM
Thanks for the help.

Just to clerify, what happens will be:
1. Collosal is hit by a weapon with Thunderbolt
2. Collosal is NOT pushed (push immunity from Massive)
3. Normal weapon damage roll

And the push immunity doesnt disrupt the attack beyond stopping the push effect.

Warfrog
01-29-2013, 03:45 PM
Thanks for the help.

Just to clerify, what happens will be:
1. Collosal is hit by a weapon with Thunderbolt
2. Collosal is NOT pushed (push immunity from Massive)
3. Normal weapon damage roll

And the push immunity doesnt disrupt the attack beyond stopping the push effect.

Correct 10char