No * attacks and Grab and Smash

[Verdigris Zombie]

Hi,

Just wondered - do feats and other effects that prevent special attacks shut down the chain attack s that grant power attacks - like Grab and Smash?

VZ

[whats82]

Chain attack is not *attack, it's part of initial attacks (if certain conditions meet). Special attack specifically mean *attack and only that, so you're free to chain attack.

[jonconcarne]

Chain attack is not *attack, it's part of initial attacks (if certain conditions meet). Special attack specifically mean *attack and only that, so you're free to chain attack.

it may be part of the initial attacks, but you're still performing a power attack of some kind usually. I'm not sure which way this goes, but I'm just curious because a headlock/headbutt/throw is still a power attack which is a type of special attack. It's a special attack given by meeting the conditions for a chain attack, but if you can't perform any special attacks, I think that would rule out the chain attack.

[mege]

it may be part of the initial attacks, but you're still performing a power attack of some kind usually. I'm not sure which way this goes, but I'm just curious because a headlock/headbutt/throw is still a power attack which is a type of special attack. It's a special attack given by meeting the conditions for a chain attack, but if you can't perform any special attacks, I think that would rule out the chain attack.

Well, the chain attack: grab and smash it self triggers, but the resultant attack from the chain attack cannot - right?

What about the Pistol Wraith's Chain Attack: Death Chill - which gives them a 'third' attack? I think this is a better example to use for this situation as the resultant attack isn't blocked by the feat/lockdown/whatever.

[whats82]

I'm probably mistaken.

[jonconcarne]

Well, the chain attack: grab and smash it self triggers, but the resultant attack from the chain attack cannot - right?

What about the Pistol Wraith's Chain Attack: Death Chill - which gives them a 'third' attack? I think this is a better example to use for this situation as the resultant attack isn't blocked by the feat/lockdown/whatever.

That's what I think would happen, I don't actually know. I do think that any form of special attack would be shut down just because Chain Attack is a conditional that allows for an additional attack. If the attack type is not allowed by something else (ala Rebuke, Fear of God, or Crippling Grasp), then I don't think you'd be allowed to make the extra attack. Not sure.

Any other takers out there with an explanation one way or the other?

[Verdigris Zombie]

Yep, that was my original point - chain attacks, per se, aren't affected, but the power attack stemming from the chain attack should be - correct?

VZ

[Khador_Rage]

A Feat/spell that pevents power attacks does just that. A Chain attack is not a *Attack, it is just a free attack after the initial attacks. Because Grab & Smash generates a free power attack after the initial attacks a feat/spell that prevents power attacks would prevent a model from making a power attack that was triggered by a chain attack.

How the power attack is triggered/generated does not matter.

[Rynth]

Special Attacks (*Attacks)
A special attack gives a model an attack option normally
unavailable to other models. Warbeasts can also make a
variety of punishing special attacks called power attacks,
described on pp. XXX–XXX. A model can make one special
attack by choosing that option during its combat action if it
meets the specific requirements of the attack. Special attacks
can be made only during a model’s activation.

A power attack is a special attack(*Attack).
If a model cannot make a *Attack for some reason I fail to see how Chain Attack Grab&Smash would allow the power attack to be made.

[Valander]

Yep, that was my original point - chain attacks, per se, aren't affected, but the power attack stemming from the chain attack should be - correct?

VZ

This is how I would interpret it as well. Chain attacks aren't blocked, but if a chain attack would result in doing a *Attack (which includes Power Attacks, as they are a subset of Special Attacks), then it wouldn't be permitted.

[vintersbastard]

To quote Macallan: I think that we are all on the same page. (http://www.privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?p=71825&highlight=Field*of*Talons%2C+power*attack#post7182 5)

(Search is your friend.;))

[Verdigris Zombie]

Search is my friend, but not if it doesn't produce an official infernal ruling.

VZ

[paradox]

What about chain attack smite? The result is a slam, but not due to a power attack. IMO the smite still triggers.

[Valander]

What about chain attack smite? The result is a slam, but not due to a power attack. IMO the smite still triggers.

Yeah, I think this one would still happen, since it doesn't say "slam power attack", but just slammed. Which is funky and nitpicky and all, but that's the nature of rules. ;)

Contrast this with Chain Attack: Brutality on the Berserker, which does have the wording "head-butt power attack". (Grab & Smash also says "power attack".)