View Full Version : Deviation and min amount to miss

03-22-2010, 04:13 PM
here is the basic number line


pretty simple stuff

lets say a 2" model's base center is represented by 0, so -1 and 1
would be the edge of its base.

now a 5" aoe centered on this model's base would have it's center be at 0, and the edge of the 5" template is now at -2.5 and 2.5 respectively.

In order for a deviation to miss this model a min distance of > 3.5"
would have to be traveled.

With a deviation of 3.5 rolled it moves from -2.5 to 1. exactly on the base of the 2" model.

I believe this would be a hit since both the template and the base exist at 1.

Now the semantics of touching and overlapping is what is gettng my group frustrated.

I argue that if u get a sugar cube and put it on 1 and then you get a second sugar cube and u wanted this sugar cube to also be on 1 you would have to stack the cubes; since putting the second cube next to the initial would be a deviation away from 1.

...does it hit?

hausdorff space
03-22-2010, 04:26 PM
...does it hit?In this situation/example, yes.

As as the barest minimum of the base is under the blast template.

Though I feel I should note that there are no two inch bases in warmachine.

03-22-2010, 04:39 PM
I just measured a large base right now and it is 2".

hausdorff space
03-22-2010, 04:43 PM
it's 50mm, which is just shy of 2inches. ;)

- it's actually an important fact to know... for things like the above situation.

03-22-2010, 04:47 PM
Actually it's not, it's 50mm, and according to my tapemeasure just slightly smaller than 2", by about 1mm (according to my calculator it's off by 0.8mm) it doesn't matter very often, but if you want to calculate whether somethings been hit this could be a relevant distance.

In your example it would miss, because of a fraction of a millimeter

03-22-2010, 04:52 PM
k sorry bout that

hausdorff space
03-22-2010, 04:55 PM
Don't appologise - in your example it'd hit as you defined a 2inch base.
And it was a good enough example to get your question answered... i presume?

This "large bases are 50mm" is an extra bit of info we're giving you. :)
It's predefined information before the game, so you can do things like put covering fire centred on a large based model and know that non-reach models can only attack it if they enter the covering fire (and take the hit), regardless of inaccurate in game measurements.

03-22-2010, 04:55 PM
FWIW, base sizes in Warmachines/Hordes are:

Small: 30mm
Medium: 40mm
Large: 50mm

30mm is slightly larger than 1" as 1" = 25.4mm
50mm is slightly smaller than 2" as 2" = 50.8mm

So in your example, a scatter of 3.5" for a 5" AOE will miss a Large base, as the base is slightly smaller than 2" and there will be no touching.

Conversely, a scatter of 2" (for any AOE 3" or larger) will hit small bases and larger.

In your theoretical situation, I believe I would go with the 3.5" scatter is still touching and hitting a 2" target.

Yeah, late info :)

Speaking of which, knowledge of bases sizes will allow you to do such things as:

Kill a medium base Wrack with a reach melee attack and not suffer any damage from the 5" AOE explosion :)

03-22-2010, 06:17 PM
As the rules say:

"Every other model with any part of its base covered by the
AOE template is hit, but not directly hit, by the attack and
suffers a blast damage roll of 2d6 + 1/2 POW."

Is it false to say that if the blast exactly meets the edge instead of COVERING at least some or in fact any of the base of the model, that the model is not hit?

That being said. If you were to deviate exactly and only exactly enough to clear the base, it does not hit.

03-22-2010, 07:21 PM
Here's a handy-dandy chart from another thread (https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?t=12505):

A quick clarification on this. If your point of origin (typically an arc node) is up to 4" away, you cannot miss clipping your target with a 3" template. With a 2" deviation you will always have a small based model still under the template.
Here's a handy chart:

Maximum deviation distances that will still hit a model's base
AOE Base size
size 30mm 40mm 50mm
3" ~2.09" ~2.29" ~2.48"
4" ~2.59" ~2.79" ~2.98"
5" ~3.09" ~3.29" ~3.48"