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View Full Version : Wording clarification: Runeshapers charging with Tremor



StarmanTTLB
12-01-2009, 03:25 PM
The rule for Tremor says that the Runeshaper may Tremor on the charge, and also that Tremor does not require a target.

Does this mean that a Runeshaper can charge, without declaring any target, in a straight line at their base SPD5, +3" for charging, and at the end of that movement pop Tremor? So basically, a Runeshaper using Tremor has a charge which cannot fail?

Shadowspite
12-01-2009, 03:31 PM
in order to have a successful charge, your charge target must be in your melee range at the end of your movement.

if the model is not in your melee range, your charge fails, and your activation immediately ends.

I don't see how tremor not requiring a target overrides the fact that you have to have your charge target in melee range at the end of your movement or your charge fails. even if tremor doesn't need a target to be used, you still need a target you are charging at.

manymoles
12-01-2009, 03:52 PM
rulebook, page 19:
It must use its action to make a combat action, choosing to make either initial melee attacks or (if it can make a special attack with a melee weapon) a melee special attack.

The problem is tremor is a magical *attack and so it couldn't be used on a charge without that special rule.

Normal rules for charging still apply for the runeshapers, so you can't charging into nowhere.

That tremor doesn't need a target is redundant (at least for me) since tremor is a model-centered AoE.

Invaderzahn
12-01-2009, 04:13 PM
I know that the Ironclad can now Tremor on a charge, but you still have to end within your melee range and you still have to declare a target IIRC.

Trollicious
12-01-2009, 08:53 PM
It seems as though you'd still need a target in order to be moving towards something. But I hope you don't fail the charge if you are outside of melee range... That would make things frustrating at a mere SPD 5

Mootaz
12-02-2009, 01:30 AM
If you use Tremor on a charge, you need a target to charge and also if you don't make a successful charge, your activation ends, just like in other charges.

The "does not need target" is useful for things like Saeryn's feat where you can't target models with Tremor normally (it being a melee attack normally).

theummhmmguy
12-02-2009, 10:49 AM
Does this interact with the a model being able to use special abilities and cast spells in between the actual charge attack and movement. Like Tartarus cursing, he could do so before the charge falis could he not? And if so could Tremor from the Runeshapers function the same way?

Nafael
12-02-2009, 11:14 AM
Although there's now a pause between movement and attacks during a charge, I believe your activation still ends immediately if you don't charge into melee range.

TheUnknownMercenary
12-02-2009, 12:50 PM
Does this interact with the a model being able to use special abilities and cast spells in between the actual charge attack and movement. Like Tartarus cursing, he could do so before the charge falis could he not? And if so could Tremor from the Runeshapers function the same way?

If a model fails a charge because it doesn't have it's target in it's melee range then it's activation immediately ends. So no Curse for Tartarus, No Tremor for Runeshapers.



If a charging model ends its charge movement without its
charge target in its melee range, then it has made a failed
charge. If a model makes a failed charge during its activation,
its activation immediately ends.

The Happy Anarchist
12-03-2009, 09:59 AM
I'm a little confused.

Tremor says you don't need a target so you can get past Foreboding and the like with Ironclads. I am cool with that, that is fine, wish Combustion was the same.

What I am confused about is how that works? Is it that you still declare a charge target (which is not a melee attack targeting a model, but just a charge targeting a model) and as long as the charge target is in melee range, you can then make a tremor attack which does not need a target, because the tremor special rules state that it overrides the can only attack charge target with melee attack part of the charging rules?

TheUnknownMercenary
12-03-2009, 10:54 AM
When you charge you have to target a model for the charge because you have to move towards that model as part of the charge rules. Now if your model ends it's movement with the charge target in it's melee range then the charge is successful but if not then the charge fails and the model's activation ends. Now if you look at the bold portion of Tremor below you will see that it allows you to make a Tremor special attack if you charge, this is what gets past the rule of have to make a melee attack as a charge attack. Tremor only overrides the rule of charge that says you have to make a melee attack against the charge target, it does not affect any other portion of the charge rules.



Tremor affects every model within 2˝ of this model and does not require a target. Make one melee attack
roll. If the roll equals or exceeds the DEF of an affected model, it is knocked down. This attack roll cannot be rerolled. This model
can make a Tremor special attack if it charges

manymoles
12-03-2009, 11:01 AM
A charge need always a target and if you don't get into the melee range of that target your activation ends. As Mootaz said and this is really clear worded in the rulebook.

The Tremor (*attack) says it can be used right after a charge.
Which is useful for the one on the Runeshapers card. It is used to be a magic ability and is therefore a magic attack. Magic attacks can't be used on charges in general.
For the Ironclad and other models using having the Tremor (*attack) on their weapons it is redundant as you can always make melee *attacks as charge attacks.

For feats or spells like Forebiding you aren't allowed to target the protected model with melee attacks in general.
Because the Tremor (*attack) doesn't need a target you are allowed to use it with an Ironclad and similar models which use the Tremor (*attack) on melee weapons. It doesn't target anything so you are fine to fire it off.
The Runeshapers can use their Tremor (*attack) in such a case too, because its no melee attack after all.

For me the confusion is a problem with the wording for Tremor. Its a general wording which takes care of both issues: being a melee attack or a magic attack.

TheUnknownMercenary
12-03-2009, 11:12 AM
It's is neither a melee attack or a magic attack it is a special attack that allows the model to make a melee attack roll or a magic attack roll against models in range.

manymoles
12-03-2009, 11:31 AM
For Runeshapers


rulebook, page 49:
Magic Ability special attacks are magic attacks but are resolved using the model’s Magic Ability score instead of the FURY stat

Edit: For Ironclad and similar



rulebook, page 20f:
Special attacks listed as a rule of a melee weapon are melee special attacks. Special attacks listed as a rule of a ranged weapon are ranged special attacks.

EOJBakura
12-03-2009, 01:48 PM
what if you chage adn the model you charged isn't in the range, can you make initial atacks without the charge attack then?

StarmanTTLB
12-03-2009, 07:11 PM
what if you chage adn the model you charged isn't in the range, can you make initial atacks without the charge attack then?If you charge and your model doesn't end its charge movement with the declared charge target inside its melee range, the charging model's activation immediately ends. No other attacks, initial or otherwise, happen.