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skapunkboy
08-19-2013, 05:38 AM
OK I will admit now I do not have the rules in front of my but i started thing

Butcher goes to charge an enemy model but will take a free strike along the way

he pops feat and charges moving past the model that will carry out said free strike

does that model have to take a terror test that they auto fail?

Mod_Redphantasm
08-19-2013, 06:08 AM
Correct, that model must take a terror check when butcher has them in his melee range or they have him in theirs. They will auto fail this check unless they have the fearless rule.

skapunkboy
08-19-2013, 06:14 AM
Correct, that model must take a terror check when butcher has them in his melee range or they have him in theirs. They will auto fail this check unless they have the fearless rule.

Will this then stop said free strike.

Also from my example butcher will be leaving there melee range which means they will be out of his melee range so im trying to get this 100% correct

MouseC
08-19-2013, 06:22 AM
There could be a scenario where a butcher player may ignore free strikes: war dog IF the wardog was moved to be within suitable inches against fearless units.

The example initially given may requires further clarification of the models involved as there would be differences if the units to be involved included fearless vs non fearless OR if a Wardog was within 3 inches of butcher when he charged past the unit.

DivideBy0
08-19-2013, 06:26 AM
Will this then stop said free strike.

Also from my example butcher will be leaving there melee range which means they will be out of his melee range so im trying to get this 100% correct

If you're afraid of something, you essentially lose all actions (with the exception of possibly those of the bowels). As such, you do not get to take a free strike. Butcher also has Reach, so I can't think of a possibility of him leaving a melee range in which he never had the opposing model in his. Keep in mind that moving in a non-straight line is a series of straight lines, so at some point, if the enemy model has Butcher in melee range (Reach or otherwise), that the Butcher had the enemy model in his, as well.

skapunkboy
08-19-2013, 06:33 AM
If you're afraid of something, you essentially lose all actions (with the exception of possibly those of the bowels). As such, you do not get to take a free strike. Butcher also has Reach, so I can't think of a possibility of him leaving a melee range in which he never had the opposing model in his. Keep in mind that moving in a non-straight line is a series of straight lines, so at some point, if the enemy model has Butcher in melee range (Reach or otherwise), that the Butcher had the enemy model in his, as well.

I agree that he would be in the units range and then not for the free strike and that puts them in his range

mine is a question of time so when do they take and auto fail the test assuming non-fearless as he would be moving past them and as such they would not longer be in his melee range

Mod_Neldar
08-19-2013, 07:20 AM
The model does not check for terror until Butcher finishes moving. (p.84 of Prime)

Free strikes occur as soon as the Butcher moves out of melee range.

Free strikes will happen before the test in this scenario.

zorrax
08-20-2013, 01:06 PM
The model does not check for terror until Butcher finishes moving. (p.84 of Prime)


This only applies to the unit that is moving.

vintersbastard
08-20-2013, 01:54 PM
This only applies to the unit that is moving.
Which is, in this case, the Butcher himself.



Make command checks due to proximity with terrifying entities during a model's or unit's normal movement when the model or unit ends its normal movement.
This includes the terrifying entity's normal movement.

bitmatic
08-20-2013, 11:37 PM
Butcher also has Reach, so I can't think of a possibility of him leaving a melee range in which he never had the opposing model in his. Keep in mind that moving in a non-straight line is a series of straight lines, so at some point, if the enemy model has Butcher in melee range (Reach or otherwise), that the Butcher had the enemy model in his, as well.

Not true if the enemy model is in Butchers back-arc. He can leave their melee range without them ever having been in his.

Other than that, it seems clear that enemy models do get to make free-strikes against him, since they are not broken yet when he leaves their melee range.

Damacles
08-21-2013, 06:10 AM
I would say that it does not work but I'm sure I could be wrong but according to prime pg 84-85 it reads

"Make command checks due to proximity with terrifying entities during a model's or unit's normal movement when the model, or unit ends it's normal movement"

Then it goes on to say (and this is probably the more relavent info in relation to the question at hand)

"If a model or unit encounters a terrifying entity at some other time, such as when an enemy model gains the terror ability or a terrifying entity is placed near the model or unit, make the command check immediately after the attack or effect that caused the encounter

So based on this the check to see whether you are in butcher's terror range should be made "after" the movement is completed and not during. Although he passes by a model/unit, at the end of his movement that model or unit will still need to be within his terror range to be affected. If Butcher has moved passed then they are not affected, if butcher moves through and out of a model's threat range then a free strike should occur as a terror check is not made till the movement is completed and only if the model is still in butcher's terror range.

My interpretation.

vintersbastard
08-21-2013, 06:42 AM
So based on this the check to see whether you are in butcher's terror range should be made "after" the movement is completed and not during. Although he passes by a model/unit, at the end of his movement that model or unit will still need to be within his terror range to be affected. If Butcher has moved passed then they are not affected, if butcher moves through and out of a model's threat range then a free strike should occur as a terror check is not made till the movement is completed and only if the model is still in butcher's terror range.

Slight correction there: the command check for encountering a terrifying entity happens whether the model is still in the Butcher's melee range or not, but it always happens once the Butcher has finished his normal movement (and won't be automatically failed if the model is not in the Butcher's melee range).

Damacles
08-21-2013, 06:55 AM
Yup, I see that now. I stand corrected. Thanks :)