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Lanzlo
10-01-2013, 02:19 PM
OK, I know that vectors under Black Oil do NOT have their MAT reduced. But, what about the other effects of Blind, if the warcaster is not affected by Black Oil? (Cannot make ranged or magical attacks, -4 DEF, cannot run or charge, and must forfeit either movement or action.)

Just want to head off a heated discussion before it starts...

Falkman
10-01-2013, 02:21 PM
A Vector hit by Black oil suffer all the effects except for the MAT-penalty just as normal.

Grey Templar
10-01-2013, 05:51 PM
Wait, why is it Vectors are immune to the Mat penalty from Black Oil? I don't see anything that says that(I don't own the CoC book, just the deck on Warroom)

Edit: Is it because they use their controller's Mat and Rat, and that it is a constant reference not a "At the beginning of the game replace the X with the Caster's value" deal, and thus you would have to Black Oil the controller to reduce the Jack's mat?

Crate123
10-01-2013, 05:55 PM
Wait, why is it Vectors are immune to the Mat penalty from Black Oil? I don't see anything that says that(I don't own the CoC book, just the deck on Warroom)

Its in the CoC book.
Page 57: "Vectors do not directly benefit from MAT/RAT bonuses or suffer from MAT/RAT penalties, but any MAT/RAT alterations to a warcaster controlling one or more vectors will be passed along to his vectors".

juckto
10-01-2013, 08:00 PM
Basically, Vectors use the warcaster's current MAT/RAT.

Northern Ronin
10-01-2013, 08:05 PM
Wait, why is it Vectors are immune to the Mat penalty from Black Oil? I don't see anything that says that(I don't own the CoC book, just the deck on Warroom)

Edit: Is it because they use their controller's Mat and Rat, and that it is a constant reference not a "At the beginning of the game replace the X with the Caster's value" deal, and thus you would have to Black Oil the controller to reduce the Jack's mat?

As stated, the rule can be found in the Cyriss Faction book, and is an inherent trait to anything which is a Vector. When a Vector makes an attack, it then checks to see what its warcasters MAT or RAT is, and uses whatever that number currently is, thus if the Caster is suffering some penalty to either stat, every Vector will as well, BUT Vectors are otherwise immune to such effects. So if you hit a Vector with Blind, it will not suffer a -4 to MAT, but will suffer the Defense Penalty, the required Forfeit, and the inability to make ranged attacks.

Valander
10-01-2013, 08:34 PM
A Vector hit by Black oil suffer all the effects except for the MAT-penalty just as normal.
This is correct.


Its in the CoC book.
Page 57: "Vectors do not directly benefit from MAT/RAT bonuses or suffer from MAT/RAT penalties, but any MAT/RAT alterations to a warcaster controlling one or more vectors will be passed along to his vectors".
And this is why. ;) (and :Buckler: cookie for rules quote)