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snord
10-02-2013, 12:24 PM
My search fu here in the forum did not find an answer:

Trollkin Runeshapers have Tremor, that says:


Tremor (* Attack): Tremor affects every model within 2" of this model and does not require a target. Make one magic attack roll. If the roll equals or exceeds the DEF of an affected model, it is knocked down. This model can make a Tremor special attack if it charges.

Skorne Brute has Set Defense, that says:


Set Defense: A model in this model's front arc suffers -2 on charge, slam power attacks, and impact attack rolls against this model.

Question is: if a Runeshaper charges the Brute and makes a Tremor special attack, does it suffer the -2 on the attack or not?

Saraminss
10-02-2013, 12:37 PM
it is a magic attack roll ... not a charge, slam or impact attack roll ... I would say no

NChomsky3d
10-02-2013, 01:00 PM
While you charge, you don't make a charge attack. That's the key difference, so they don't get the -2 to attack rolls.

juckto
10-02-2013, 02:03 PM
But, by definition, the first attack made after a successful charge is a charge attack.

MarioLopez
10-02-2013, 02:41 PM
Can't you only make special attacks on a charge if it's a weapon ability? Runeshapers don't have tremor in their weapons.

Valander
10-02-2013, 02:51 PM
Checking on something because there are multiple versions of Tremor.

(The Trollkin Runeshapers' version states "magic attack roll," but the Ironclad's version states "melee attack roll" for example.)

Valander
10-02-2013, 02:52 PM
Can't you only make special attacks on a charge if it's a weapon ability? Runeshapers don't have tremor in their weapons.
Normally, that's correct, but if you read the last line in the Runeshaper's Tremor, it explicitly states they can use it on the charge.

snord
10-02-2013, 03:55 PM
Thanks for the comments. I am fairly new to the game and totally new to this forum, but the top sticky thread says Valander's ruling is official. Just not clear what the ruling is right now... :)

The reason for my question is that it happened in my game yesterday. Since my opponent was more experienced than I am, I accepted his ruling and we played the Runeshaper would not take the penalty.

Having said that, :) I know fluff does not matter when making rule decisions, but the set defense ability is on the Brute's halberd for the obvious reason that anyone charging into a halberd will have some "dodging" to do, reducing the efficiency of his attack. That makes me thing that even if the attack is magic, it is part of the charge and would take the penalty. :)

Anyway, thanks again! :)

solkan
10-02-2013, 04:13 PM
Thanks for the comments. I am fairly new to the game and totally new to this forum, but the top sticky thread says Valander's ruling is official. Just not clear what the ruling is right now... :)


"Checking" means "Thank you for bringing the issue to our attention. Before giving you an answer, a few people need to check a few details to make sure what the answer this. This may take some time."

In other words, the answer is that you don't have an official answer yet, but you will get one. :)

snord
10-02-2013, 04:22 PM
@Solkan, ok, got it, thanks! :)

MagnustheJust
10-02-2013, 05:03 PM
>grabs mixed ICEE & popcorn and waits<


This outcome is relevant to my Mercenary interests, as both the Vanguard light warjack and the Steelhead Halberdier unit have Set Defense.

Valander
10-16-2013, 08:38 AM
Answer:

Because the Runeshaper's Tremor states it can be used on the charge, it is still a charge attack, and so Set Defense will still apply (as would any other effects that affect a charge attack specifically).

While most of the time charge attacks are melee attacks, there are instances where you can have a charge attack that is a ranged attack or magic attack due to special rules.

snord
10-16-2013, 08:49 AM
Thanks a lot Valander! :)

Valander
10-16-2013, 10:07 AM
Also, a clarification to go along with that:

While Tremor doesn't require a target when used outside of a charge, when you do charge you have declared a target, so only that declared target would get the Set Defense (as it is only a charge attack against that model). This is similar to how Thresher works on a charge.