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Ravanar
10-25-2013, 01:36 AM
Good morning,

If this has been answered previously I apologise but I haven't found the thread.

The knockdown rule states that a knokdown penalty effect can only be once per knockdown in the book but if it occurs in the turn before a modl activates that model can't stand up that turn (assuming I read that bit correctly), does this mean that I could knock a model down in say my turn 2, not have it shake off the effect in the maintenance phase of my turn 3, throw the knocked down model then have it activate an carry out it's activation with suitable forfeit of move/action?

E.g. A marshalled bucaneer uses its net on butcher 3 in my turn two. Butcher gets knocked down. My turn 3 comes about, I leave him knocked down, a kodiak throws the butcher, butcher activates, stands up, casts his drag spell and proceeds to apply axe to face.

Stormpuppy_Infantry
10-25-2013, 02:16 AM
A knocked down model can stand up at the start of its next activation unless it was knocked down during its controller's turn; in tat case it cannot stand up until its controller's next turn even if it has not yet activated this turn. A model cannot become knocked down while it is knocked down. For example, if a model is knocked down during your opponent's turn and before it gets a chance to stand up is affected by an effect that would ordinarily cause it to be knocked down on your turn, it is not affected by the second instance of knockdown and can still stand up on your turn.

So... It works, unless I miss some points. I saw errata but nothing diffrent with that.

And it works too if your model is knocked down during previous enemy turn.

Mod_Redphantasm
10-25-2013, 05:26 AM
Should be fine rules wise.

Leave the tactical discussion to the faction forums.

yshsalas
10-25-2013, 06:50 PM
While true that the model cannot be knocked down again, there is part of the trow rule that prevents this type of abuse.
Prime 54 "If a thrown model cannot be knocked down it must still forfeit its movement or action if it activates later in a turn in which it was thrown."

The butcher must sacrifice his action or movement from being throw and then can sacrifice either to stand up. He could still cast the spell, but he could not make the attack with his combat action. He can still cast flashing blade though so that somewhat circumvents this problem.

solkan
10-25-2013, 08:37 PM
While true that the model cannot be knocked down again, there is part of the trow rule that prevents this type of abuse.
Prime 54 "If a thrown model cannot be knocked down it must still forfeit its movement or action if it activates later in a turn in which it was thrown."

The butcher must sacrifice his action or movement from being throw and then can sacrifice either to stand up. He could still cast the spell, but he could not make the attack with his combat action. He can still cast flashing blade though so that somewhat circumvents this problem.

You've got the wrong abuse prevention system.

Kommander Zoktavir is knocked down. When Kommander Zoktavir decides to stand up, he will have to forfeit movement or action to stand up.
If Kommander Zoktavir is thrown while knocked down, he does not have to forfeit twice.

Because he is not immune to knock down when he is thrown. The fact that knock down does not stack with itself does not make the knocked down model immune to being knocked down.

Consider for a moment what happens if the knocked down Kommander Zoktavir gets thrown three times in the same turn. He doesn't end up with a requirement to forfeit three or four times.

yshsalas
10-26-2013, 05:26 AM
RAW Prime 54: there are three conditions that must be met for the effect to occur.

1. The model is thrown.
2. The model cannot be knocked down.
3. The model activates later in the same turn it was thrown.

In this case the butcher meets all 3. He was thrown and he cannot be knocked down because he was already knocked down. Therefore, if he activates later in that same turn he must forfeit movement or action. This does not change the fact that he is still knocked down. He still has one of those two available to him to forfeit to stand up, if the controller chooses to.

@Solkan, you are reading "cannot be knocked down" as "has a rule that makes the model immune to knock down", but it simply says "cannot be knocked down". Being knocked down in one case in which the model cannot be knocked down.

The intent of the rule may be different, but that is how I am reading it.

Falkman
10-26-2013, 05:38 AM
@Solkan, you are reading "cannot be knocked down" as "has a rule that makes the model immune to knock down", but it simply says "cannot be knocked down". Being knocked down in one case in which the model cannot be knocked down.

The intent of the rule may be different, but that is how I am reading it.
That is how I'm reading it as well. The Throw rule states "If a thrown model cannot be knocked down it must still forfeit its action or movement if it activates later in a turn in which it was thrown." The Knocked down rule states "A model cannot become knocked down while it is knocked down." (my emphasis in both cases).
By the letter of both rules the Throw rule would clearly affect the Knocked down rule, since the knocked down model follows the exact condition that the Throw rule points out (ie a model cannot be knocked down, but it must still forfeit).

Valander
10-26-2013, 08:34 AM
Fairly sure of answer, but want to confirm.

websome7
10-26-2013, 02:21 PM
Knockdown jacks can use focus to shake off knockdown, can't warcasters do the same? Or have I just been playing the game wrong

Valander
10-26-2013, 02:21 PM
Knockdown jacks can use focus to shake off knockdown, can't warcasters do the same? Or have I just been playing the game wrong
New questions should get new threads.

Yes, war casters can shake effects, but that is not the core of what this question is about.

Valander
11-14-2013, 03:07 PM
Answer: The knocked down model effectively ignores the second instance of the knock down from the Throw/Slam, so the Throw/Slam rule does not apply.

This means the example in the OP is legal.