PDA

View Full Version : Engaging and being engaged



Moress
10-29-2013, 10:11 PM
Hello,

I'm having a tough time differentiating between the two. Say I have a model with reach that is in melee with a non reach model. If I'm correct, my model is engaging the opponents model, but my model itself is not engaged, correct? This means I can walk out of melee at any time but he can't.

Do I still get a +def bonus against shooting in the above case? What if a model that has a knocked down model in its melee range. Since the knocked down model doesn't have a melee range, am I free to shoot ranged weapons, even though I'm engaging the knocked down model, but I myself am not engaged?

Thanks

Celeb
10-29-2013, 10:40 PM
The +4 against shooting is for a model "in melee, which is defined as "engging or being engaged". A knocked down model cannot be engaged and cannot engage.

jettzypher
10-29-2013, 10:42 PM
You are correct with regards to a model with reach engaging a model without reach.

Being engaged, the model will still suffer the in melee penalty if targeted by a ranged attack.

Knocked down models cannot engage nor be engaged. So your model with a ranged weapon could be base to base and still shoot as it is not in melee with that model.

sleet01
10-29-2013, 10:49 PM
Hello,

I'm having a tough time differentiating between the two. Say I have a model with reach that is in melee with a non reach model. If I'm correct, my model is engaging the opponents model, but my model itself is not engaged, correct? This means I can walk out of melee at any time but he can't.

Do I still get a +def bonus against shooting in the above case? What if a model that has a knocked down model in its melee range. Since the knocked down model doesn't have a melee range, am I free to shoot ranged weapons, even though I'm engaging the knocked down model, but I myself am not engaged?

Thanks

Here's a reply I wrote in a different thread about the differences between "engaging", "engaged", and "in melee".


This pops up from time to time. The issue is that there are some abilities which are prevented by being in melee, and some which are prevented by being engaged, and some effects which let you be out of melee when you would otherwise be in melee, and these get concatenated in our minds.

Engaging: having a enemy model in your melee range and line of sight. 90% of the time this means having one or more enemy models in your front arc and melee range. Engaging is one part of being in melee so it prevents the use of ranged weapons, barring special rules (and there are a lot of them). Engaging does not prevent arcing spells so arc nodes with reach weapons will sometimes engage an enemy at their maximum reach range to prevent it from shooting but not prevent their own arcing. Arcing models without reach can also be in this state and still be able to arc by getting in their engaged model's back arc.

Being Engaged: an enemy model has your model in its melee range. This prevents arcing spells (except for some special models) and making ranged attacks (again, barring special rules). Being engaged also prevents Colossals from getting the aiming bonus.

In melee: if a model is engaging another model, or is engaged by another model, it is (barring other effects) considered to be in melee. Being in melee grants most models protection from ranged attacks and offensive spells (+4 to DEF) and also prevents CRAs from being used against them; huge bases are one exception to these benefits. Colossals can also shoot while in melee (engaging or engaged) and don't suffer the +4 DEF penalty when shooting things they are in melee with.

Being in melee is specifically what prevents models from making ranged attacks; technically, engaging and being engaged only prevent ranged attacks inasmuch as they are the two ways of being in melee. Most of the time non-reach models in melee will be both engaging and engaged but it's possible to be one but not the other; see above.

In melee range: being in melee range of something, that is having a model in your model's melee range, does not prevent anything in and of itself, it's just the fact that this normally means those models are in melee that causes people to conflate these two things. However, there are a couple common effects that make a model in your model's melee range not put your model into melee:
- Knocked Down. A knocked down model is never in melee, and you are never in melee with it. A pair of Long Gunners can be base-to-base with a KD target and shoot that target with a CRA, because it is not considered to be in melee.
- Stationary. A stationary model is never in melee and you are never in melee with it. See previous example.

Note that Immobile, which is on some non-moving models and SR objectives, prevents those models from engaging but not from being engaged, so they can be in melee (and your models can be in melee with them). Wracks, for instance; you can't walk your Defender until it is engaging a Wrack and then shoot it.

Moress
10-30-2013, 08:14 AM
That clears it up a bit. As per your last example with the wrack, this came up in a game I had the other night. I was playing eKrueger and cast Stormwall and my opponent tried to run BtB with a stone and lob a bomb at my stone.

According to your example, the zealot could not have used a ranged attack because even though my stone had no melee range and could not engage (but can still be engaged) due to being immobile, my stone was still in his melee range, thus could not use a ranged attack. The exception to this would be knocked down and stationary models because they cannot engage AND cannot be engaged, correct?

Thanks

solkan
10-30-2013, 08:23 AM
According to your example, the zealot could not have used a ranged attack because even though my stone had no melee range and could not engage (but can still be engaged) due to being immobile, my stone was still in his melee range, thus could not use a ranged attack. The exception to this would be knocked down and stationary models because they cannot engage AND cannot be engaged, correct?

The Shifting Stones have a rule named Immobile which states that they cannot engage or be engaged. So it's not possible to be in melee with them. So it's the same as the knocked down model situation--having the shifting stone in your melee range does not prevent you from making a ranged attack.

Edit: Oops, I take that back. That's not what the Immobile rule says. You can engage a Shifting Stone, according to the War Room card. :o

So if you walk up so that the enemy Shifting Stone is in your melee range, you are in melee with it and that will prevent ranged attacks as usual.

sleet01
10-30-2013, 08:25 AM
Correct on both counts, yes.

The Captain
10-30-2013, 08:32 AM
That clears it up a bit. As per your last example with the wrack, this came up in a game I had the other night. I was playing eKrueger and cast Stormwall and my opponent tried to run BtB with a stone and lob a bomb at my stone.

According to your example, the zealot could not have used a ranged attack because even though my stone had no melee range and could not engage (but can still be engaged) due to being immobile, my stone was still in his melee range, thus could not use a ranged attack. The exception to this would be knocked down and stationary models because they cannot engage AND cannot be engaged, correct?

Thanks
Yep, that's correct. (And also other special situations where "cannot engage or be engaged" is specified, such as some scenario objectives.)

prkl
10-30-2013, 10:11 AM
Immobile models can be engaged. A rule that is often misplayed. Shifting stones targeted by spells whilst engaged are DEF 9 so most of the time it doesn't matter (unless they're in cover too ;) )