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View Full Version : Caustic Mist and charnel flames v greater destiny



dicegod
04-09-2010, 09:16 PM
If a model with greater destiny enters a cloud will they suffer a point of damage?

What about if they enter a charnel flame cloud from venethraxes feat?

TheUnknownMercenary
04-09-2010, 09:47 PM
The AOEs are from a spell (Caustic Mist) or a feat (Charnel Flames) which Greater Destiny will not protect from.

dicegod
04-09-2010, 09:50 PM
Doesn't the damage originate from the AOE? Not from a feat or spell?

I see a distinct difference between that and the harbingers or old witches feat.

jonconcarne
04-09-2010, 10:12 PM
Well, RAI, I think they would take the point since the AOE is from a spell, but RAW, I don't think they take damage.

Caustic mist:... a model entering or ending its activation in the AOE suffers 1 point of corrosion damage.

The only argument for taking damage that I can see is where the damage "originates" from. Is it from the spell dealing them damage? It doesn't sound like it to me, so I'm inclined to agree with Dicegod, as much as it makes me sad about my eGaspy list...

Primus
04-10-2010, 12:48 AM
The damage comes from the AoE, the AoE was created by the spell. They take damage.

By dicegod's definition, Zealots under Greater Destiny would never take damage from any AoE spell, and we know that is not the case.

dicegod
04-10-2010, 12:53 AM
Actually no, the inital damage sure kills them for example breath of corruption. But is the auto point a spell?

jonconcarne
04-10-2010, 06:50 AM
The damage comes from the AoE, the AoE was created by the spell. They take damage.

By dicegod's definition, Zealots under Greater Destiny would never take damage from any AoE spell, and we know that is not the case.

point. The AOE damage initially is from a spell, but the source of the damage is the same for entering or ending in the AOE. It still has to be the spell.

dhow tocor
04-10-2010, 07:29 AM
I don't have the card, only the Field Test PDF. However, assuming it has not changed much, Greater Destiny does not ignore damage from a spell or a feat. Charnel Flames' AOEs are clearly part of the feat, so Greater Destiny will not protect them in this case.

brotherscott
04-10-2010, 11:54 AM
"Greater Destiny - Once per game during its unitʼs activation, this model can use Greater Destiny. For one round, models in this unit in formation do not suffer damage except from spells and feats."

"Caustic Mist- Place a 3˝ AOE cloud effect completely in this modelʼs control area. A model entering or ending its activation in the AOE suffers 1 point of corrosion damage :DmgType-Corrosion:. Caustic Mist lasts for one round."

The AoE is an effect of the spell (Caustic Mist), but is not a spell itself. Models under Greater Destiny do not suffer the effects of spells. Spells such as Chain Lightning directly affect/ target the model would bypass the Greater Destiny rule.



"Charnel Flames- When a model is destroyed in Venethrax's control area, before removing the model from the table center a 3" AOE could effect over it. The detroyed model does not provide a corpse token. Models with Eyeless Sight do not ignore these cloud effects. Models entering a Charnel Flames AOE suffer 1 point of Fire damage :Cont-Fire: . Charnel Flames lasts for one round."

It would appear that Charnel Flames would affect models under Greater Destiny if you could set it up right. The Zealots under Greater Destiny would have to be targeted and destroyed by a spell in order to trigger the AOE, and the same models would have to enter the AOE to take the fire damage. on the other hand, Zealots under Greater Destiny would not be able to walk unharmed into a Charnel Flames AOE.

Just my two focus-

Primus
04-10-2010, 12:50 PM
"Greater Destiny - Once per game during its unitʼs activation, this model can use Greater Destiny. For one round, models in this unit in formation do not suffer damage except from spells and feats."

The AoE is an effect of the spell (Caustic Mist), but is not a spell itself. Models under Greater Destiny do not suffer the effects of spells. Spells such as Chain Lightning directly affect/ target the model would bypass the Greater Destiny rule.

There is nothing in Greater Destiny's current wording that says that models affected by it also ignore the effects of spells. Only damage is ignored.

And I say again, you cannot disconnect the AoE from the spell that caused it.

hausdorff space
04-10-2010, 02:40 PM
And I say again, you cannot disconnect the AoE from the spell that caused it.Rulings on things like blessed vs concealment (and such) granted by magic effects disagree.

http://www.privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?t=9750&highlight=blessed

Dude
04-10-2010, 03:04 PM
incorrect interpretation, blessed ignores the defense and arm bonuses granted from spells, Fog of War grants concealment, and it is concealment that is granted the defense bonus, not the spell. Fog of War does not grant a defense bonus, it grants a game mechanic. As for the AoE's, the damage type is only for immunities and point of origin doesn't matter for determining whether something was a ranged or magic damage type. If the AoE was caused by a spell, all damage it causes is magic damage unless it specifically says otherwise.

hausdorff space
04-10-2010, 03:09 PM
incorrect interpretation, blessed ignores the defense and arm bonuses granted from spells, Fog of War grants concealment, and it is concealment that is granted the defense bonus, not the spell. Fog of War does not grant a defense bonus, it grants a game mechanic. As for the AoE's, the damage type is only for immunities and point of origin doesn't matter for determining whether something was a ranged or magic damage type. If the AoE was caused by a spell, all damage it causes is magic damage unless it specifically says otherwise.My point was there is a precedent for disconnecting a spell from its 'effect'. The AOE cloud effect is caused by the spell, it is not the spell itself.

There is a difference here between a straight forward offensive spell with an Area of Effects, and a lingering AOE.

Dude
04-10-2010, 03:44 PM
I suppose I just don't see why there would be disconnect from the AoE and the spell. No lingering AoE in the core game mechanics just does damage. Blessed vs. concealment granting effects is a different case because concealment in a game effect; it has a precedence. Since there isn't one for AoE's, why would we disconnect the effect from the spell, since is the specific wording on the spell description that informs us how the rules of the cloud effect change?

Macallan
04-16-2010, 03:04 PM
If a model with greater destiny enters a cloud will they suffer a point of damage?

What about if they enter a charnel flame cloud from venethraxes feat?
Both Caustic Mist and Charnel of flames are spell/feat damage.