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Blaque
12-05-2013, 06:01 AM
Hey peeps,

I was trying to clarify something elsewhere and found that there was a bit of a dispute on Chain Lightning and whether the arcs after the initial target will be able to loop back to that initial target. Spell text:

A model hit by Chain Lightning suffers a POW 10 electrical damage roll:DmgType-Electric:, and lightning arcs from that model to d6 consecutive additional models. The lightning arcs to the nearest model it has not already arced to within 4" of the last model it arced to,ignoring this model. Each model the lightning arcs to suffers a POW 10 electrical damage roll:DmgType-Electric:.







The thread here was closest that I could find:
https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?35843-Chain-Lightening&highlight=chain+lightning+original

The argument I feel is that the answer is "yes" since the initial target is a possible "...nearest model it has not already arced ti wthin 4" of the last model arced to..."

However, the thread describes the term use of "additional models" as a limit in itself. Since the leaps are determined consecutively, would the initial model be able to become an additional model for purposes of the spell, or would the use of the term "additional model" strictly read as "not the original target, ever" for determining arcs?

I have always played it in the first interpretation being importat, but the latter clause feels important to look at.

And stuff.

Oldgrue
12-05-2013, 06:31 AM
Additional model is used in regards to more than one. Chain lightning has not "already arced to" the original target.

Stormpuppy_Infantry
12-05-2013, 08:42 AM
I think that original target is also included at 'already arced' ones.

yshsalas
12-05-2013, 09:01 AM
A model hit by Chain Lightning suffers a POW 10 electrical damage roll:DmgType-Electric:, and lightning arcs from that model to d6 consecutive additional models. The lightning arcs to the nearest model it has not already arced to within 4" of the last model it arced to,ignoring this model. Each model the lightning arcs to suffers a POW 10 electrical damage roll:DmgType-Electric:.


Emphasis mine. This model always refers to the model that has the rule on its card. You ignore it when determining the next model hit.

The Captain
12-05-2013, 09:12 AM
Emphasis mine. This model always refers to the model that has the rule on its card. You ignore it when determining the next model hit.
While true, it's not really relevant to the question. "This model" would be the caster of Chain lightning, not the original target of the spell (unless for some obscure reason they channeled the spell on themselves).

maliciousadvice
12-05-2013, 09:27 AM
Cant channel offensive spells onto the channeler

lobachevskii
12-05-2013, 09:33 AM
Cant channel offensive spells onto the channeler

But you can certainly arc/channel offensive spells onto the caster ... . Not that, as The Captain pointed out, you'd often want to.

Mr_Smigs
12-05-2013, 10:11 AM
has it arced to the initial target already?

if no, then it is a valid arc target.

yshsalas
12-05-2013, 10:35 AM
Reread the initial post after my first reply. I'll try to answer the right question this time.

A model hit by Chain Lightning suffers a POW 10 electrical damage roll, and lightning arcs from that model to d6 consecutive additional models. The lightning arcs to the nearest model it has not already arced to within 4" of the last model it arced to,ignoring this model. Each model the lightning arcs to suffers a POW 10 electrical damage roll.

The inital target is the model hit. It cannot, by definition, also be an additional model. There are a number of qualifiers for new targets. The next model arced to must be a consecutive additional model that was not already arced to. The original target cannot be 'additional' to itself.

yshsalas
12-05-2013, 10:35 AM
EDIT: Double-Post

Blaque
12-05-2013, 12:38 PM
That would be the logic but I am not sure there's anything in the rules that sas a model cannot be an additional one to itself. It might be me getting hung-up on the consecutive part of the spell. I do see the logic that a model can't be in addition to itself but the idea of "additional models" if I remember right isn't defined and the esplicit prohibitioned modes that can get arcs are those already arc'd to (which don't include the initial target) and the caster of the spell (which normally doesn't include the initial target).

And stuff.

dchadpage
12-05-2013, 01:43 PM
That would be the logic but I am not sure there's anything in the rules that sas a model cannot be an additional one to itself.

Something that is additional to something is, by definition, something different. The rules do not need to explicitly declare this because the definition of the word already does so.

Oldgrue
12-05-2013, 01:45 PM
"The lightning arcs to the nearest model it has not already arced to (1) within 4" of the last model it arced to (2) ,ignoring this model (3)."
1) Previously hit by an arc, not the initial spell effect.
2) hit by the arc
3) because you can never be closer than 0" to a model.

So it should be:

(4)--(3)--(I,2)--(1)

(I) is hit by the spell (and lives! Maybe he's lucky?)
(1) Catches an arc to the face, followed by (2 - who seems not to be so lucky anymore), (3), etc...

I'm interpreting it as two sets {target} {d6 models} as opposed to dchadpage and yshsalas.

ref:
https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?180661-Electro-Leap-clarification&p=2333712&viewfull=1#post2333712
https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?166572-Chain-lightning-in-melee&highlight=%2Bchain+%2Blightning

solkan
12-05-2013, 02:43 PM
As far as I can tell, it comes down to this:

A model hit by Chain Lightning suffers a POW 10 electrical damage roll, and lightning arcs from that model to d6 consecutive additional models.

"consecutive additional models". If you arced to the original target again, that wouldn't be an additional model. Compare the wording on abilities which hit a target model and other additional models, they tend to specify that the original target can be effected multiple times if it is possible.

Leo_the_Rat
12-06-2013, 04:36 AM
Solkan- Can you give examples of the abilities that you mention. I'm not familiar enough with the game to think of any at the moment.

Maudlin
12-06-2013, 05:23 AM
Chain Lightning never strikes twice.

Mr_Smigs
12-06-2013, 08:42 AM
Chain Lightning never strikes twice.

so, once a target is hit with chain lightning, we cannot cast the spell at it again?

SageofLodoss
12-06-2013, 09:50 AM
so, once a target is hit with chain lightning, we cannot cast the spell at it again?

Er...no. He's saying that the D6 additional arcs can't arc back to the model originally hit. So in other words, the "additional models" wording does exclude the original hit target from being someone that the leaps could arc to.

Mr_Smigs
12-06-2013, 11:07 AM
Er...no. He's saying that the D6 additional arcs can't arc back to the model originally hit. So in other words, the "additional models" wording does exclude the original hit target from being someone that the leaps could arc to.

not at all. he clearly stated

Chain Lightning never strikes twice.

never.

not "within the same casting."

never.

wording's kinda important here..

solkan
12-06-2013, 11:22 AM
not at all. he clearly stated


never.

not "within the same casting."

never.

wording's kinda important here..

Were you planning on stopping before or after you get to shouting "The Infernals just said we can never cast that spell ever again! Not in the same game! Not on the same day! Never, ever!" ?

Maudlin
12-06-2013, 11:24 AM
not at all. he clearly stated


never.

not "within the same casting."

never.

wording's kinda important here..

It was a turn of phrase. Between the two options that were being discussed, I meant to indicate it was the one that said the same model could not be hit more than once by the same casting of the spell.