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Kingcolin7
01-05-2014, 01:26 PM
I have played and seen the Harbinger played before. She can do her little take D3 and save a warrior model. Well I have seen someone run their exemplars with that Rupert the Piper model so they gave them tough. Does it work to make them do tough and if they fail their tough roll Harbinger can turn around and save them? I feel there is a timing issue there. Also abilities such as snacking, or take down, things that remove the model from play instantly, I believe Legion's Scythean has an animi or ability someone was telling me about that negates Harbinger's effect. So i guess my question is what works and doesn't work around The Harbinger saving ability? and can they do tough then get saved?

Thank You
Colin

Falkman
01-05-2014, 01:39 PM
Does it work to make them do tough and if they fail their tough roll Harbinger can turn around and save them? I feel there is a timing issue there.
Yes, this works fine. Tough and Martyrdom both trigger when a model is disabled. So the disabled model takes its Tough roll, fails it, is still disabled so Martyrdom still works.


Also abilities such as snacking, or take down, things that remove the model from play instantly, I believe Legion's Scythean has an animi or ability someone was telling me about that negates Harbinger's effect. So i guess my question is what works and doesn't work around The Harbinger saving ability?
There is nu such thing as "instantly." Removed from play trigger at different parts of the disabled -> boxed -> destroyed cycle depending on ability. The removed from play effect from Snacking and Take down both trigger on boxed, while Harbinger's Martyrdom trigger on disabled. Since disabled comes before boxed Martyrdom will trigger first, at which point the model will heal and no longer be disabled. Since it is no longer disabled it will not go on to boxed and thus Snacking and Take down never triggers.

onthedownlow
01-05-2014, 01:43 PM
For your reference, the Appendix A on page 236 and 237 of the Hordes rulebook are your friend for timing resolutions. I do not have the Warmachine book to hand, but I imagine it is in a similar place.

Kingcolin7
01-05-2014, 01:48 PM
What about models with the ability of consume? same thing i assume

onthedownlow
01-05-2014, 02:00 PM
The best advice is to look at the rule in question, and look at when it triggers. At that stage, it should be fairly clear whether it does before 'disabled', or not. Consume as an example generally does on hit, although I'm sure that's not the same in every case. If the rule has the same trigger as Martyrdom then the active player can choose which is resolved first.

Falkman
01-05-2014, 02:08 PM
What about models with the ability of consume? same thing i assume
Consume triggers on hit, which is way before disabled. Thus the Harbinger cannot use Martyrdom to save a model being consumed.
As onthedownlow says, the rules for each ability will tell you when they trigger, just read the rules and follow them.

Grey Templar
01-05-2014, 02:20 PM
Many other RFP abilities happen at boxed, so Tough and Martyrdom can stop a troll from snacking on Errants for example.

Its all about when the ability triggers.

yshsalas
01-05-2014, 08:06 PM
I believe Legion's Scythean has an animi or ability someone was telling me about that negates Harbinger's effect.

The Sycthean's animus, Slaughterhouse, grants Take Down which prevent's tough specifically. Models disabled don't get to make tough rolls. It also causes boxed models to be removed from play. Neither part of the animus has any interaction with Martyrdom. That said, martyrdom is an ability by which the Harbinger heals the disabled model. Effects that prevent models from healing must be placed on the Harbinger, effects that prevent models from being healed must be on the target model.