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_PG_Avanice
01-15-2014, 07:26 AM
Hey Gang, Fast question. Last night i watched a fight between trolls and legion. The War Wagon was engaged by a shredder at the start of the round. The troll kin player didn't move his wagon, used weapon platform to melee attack and damage the shredder, then the spray attack to hit both the shredder and Thagorosh. Lastly it used it's cannon to kill Thagorosh.

My question was that this shouldn't have happened had the troll-kin player didn't have the +2 to hit with cannon or spray. Was this done correctly? War-rooms reference info looks like it supports that the troll-kin SHOULD have had the +2 and i seem to recall Typhoon rulings in the past which mentioned he can obtain his +2 to hit while using his sprays ect.

If you could let me know what pages your answers are on I will review and look it up as well Thanks :)

Gekkota
01-15-2014, 07:38 AM
Any models other than Gargossals can aim while engaged. Gargossals cannot aim while engaged. It is one of their special rules. (Collossals or Gargantuans Book)
Typhon cannot get the bonus if he is in melee with something because the Gun Fighter rule does not allow an aiming bonus when targeting models in your own melee range. (Gun Fighter rule in Prime MKII) He can, however, aim, kill what he is in melee with and then spray something else further away and get the +2.

The War Wagon is neither a Gargossal, nor does it have Gun Fighter, so nothing prevents it from getting the aiming bonus, even while engaged.
But beware: Weapon Platform does NOT allow you to ignore the target in melee malus against models in your own melee range. Didn't matter here. Just saying.

wargrim
01-15-2014, 07:52 AM
Any models other than Gargossals can aim while engaged. Gargossals cannot aim while engaged. It is one of their special rules. (Collossals or Gargantuans Book)

Gargossals are able to aim while in melee. They just can't claim the aiming bonus against models in melee with them (like Gunfighter).

DrFish
01-15-2014, 08:45 AM
Gargossals are able to aim while in melee. They just can't claim the aiming bonus against models in melee with them (like Gunfighter).

Incorrect

https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?176050-Gargantuans-Colossals-and-Aiming&highlight=gargantuan+aiming

Edit: eh, Not necessarily, I guess. Hyper aggressive might chage that? Seems like it would be an unnecessary restriction on gargs...

_PG_Avanice
01-15-2014, 09:21 AM
Any models other than Gargossals can aim while engaged. Gargossals cannot aim while engaged. It is one of their special rules. (Collossals or Gargantuans Book)
Typhon cannot get the bonus if he is in melee with something because the Gun Fighter rule does not allow an aiming bonus when targeting models in your own melee range. (Gun Fighter rule in Prime MKII) He can, however, aim, kill what he is in melee with and then spray something else further away and get the +2.

The War Wagon is neither a Gargossal, nor does it have Gun Fighter, so nothing prevents it from getting the aiming bonus, even while engaged.
But beware: Weapon Platform does NOT allow you to ignore the target in melee malus against models in your own melee range. Didn't matter here. Just saying.

Oh ho, Okay so in my example this exact benefit should take place

Wagon's Bonuses for aiming
Mount Attack against Shredder: +0 (Because melee)
Scattergun against Shredder engaged with wagon: +0 (As per Gunfighter)
Scattergun against Thagorosh but while engaged by Shredder: +0? (because of Simultaneous attack)
Pounder against Thagorosh, no longer engaged because the shredder died from Scatter gun: +2 (due to retaining Aimming bonus the whole round)

Are these right?

Stormpuppy_Infantry
01-15-2014, 09:23 AM
Oh ho, Okay so in my example this exact benefit should take place

Wagon's Bonuses for aiming
Mount Attack against Shredder: +0 (Because melee)
Scattergun against Shredder engaged with wagon: +0 (As per Gunfighter)
Scattergun against Thagorosh but while engaged by Shredder: +0? (because of Simultaneous attack)
Pounder against Thagorosh, no longer engaged because the shredder died from Scatter gun: +2 (due to retaining Aimming bonus the whole round)

Are these right?

When engaged it can't have +2 attack roll for aiming, so I think that it is nothing wrong.

Remember that Scattergun is Spray attack, which ignore target in melee penalty. I think that it was why Gekkota said 'Didn't matter here'.

_PG_Avanice
01-15-2014, 09:31 AM
When engaged it can't have +2 attack roll for aiming, so I think that it is nothing wrong.

Remember that Scattergun is Spray attack, which ignore target in melee penalty. I think that it was why Gekkota said 'Didn't matter here'.

Wouldn't Weapon Platform also ignore target in melee penalties? o.0 sorry for the confusion just really want to make sure i didn't make a bad call.

Stormpuppy_Infantry
01-15-2014, 09:38 AM
Wouldn't Weapon Platform also ignore target in melee penalties? o.0 sorry for the confusion just really want to make sure i didn't make a bad call.

Right. Maybe I make the confusion. :(

yshsalas
01-15-2014, 08:18 PM
Oh ho, Okay so in my example this exact benefit should take place

Wagon's Bonuses for aiming
Mount Attack against Shredder: +0 (Because melee)
Scattergun against Shredder engaged with wagon: +0 (As per Gunfighter)
Scattergun against Thagorosh but while engaged by Shredder: +0? (because of Simultaneous attack)
Pounder against Thagorosh, no longer engaged because the shredder died from Scatter gun: +2 (due to retaining Aimming bonus the whole round)

Are these right?

Weapon platform is not gunfighter, nor is the War Wagon a colossal or gargantuan with restrictions on its aiming bonus.

Wagon's Bonuses for aiming
Mount Attack against Shredder: +0 (Because melee)
Scattergun against Shredder engaged with wagon: +2 (+2 from aiming)
Scattergun against Thagorosh but while engaged by Shredder: +2 (aim bonus)
Pounder against Thagorosh, no longer engaged because the shredder died from Scatter gun: +2 (due to retaining Aiming bonus the whole round)

Nowhere do the rules for battle engines or in weapon platform does it say that the model loses the aiming bonus against models it is in melee with. Nor does it say that it gets to ignore the target in melee penalty against models in melee with itself.

Stormpuppy_Infantry
01-15-2014, 08:26 PM
Well, anyway scattergun is spray that ignore target in melee penalty. Then why that must suffer target in melee penalty?

yshsalas
01-15-2014, 08:29 PM
Well, anyway scattergun is spray that ignore target in melee penalty. Then why that must suffer target in melee penalty?

you're right on that!!! my mistake, fixed other post

_PG_Avanice
01-16-2014, 06:17 AM
Weapon platform is not gunfighter, nor is the War Wagon a colossal or gargantuan with restrictions on its aiming bonus.

Wagon's Bonuses for aiming
Mount Attack against Shredder: +0 (Because melee)
Scattergun against Shredder engaged with wagon: +2 (+2 from aiming)
Scattergun against Thagorosh but while engaged by Shredder: +2 (aim bonus)
Pounder against Thagorosh, no longer engaged because the shredder died from Scatter gun: +2 (due to retaining Aiming bonus the whole round)

Nowhere do the rules for battle engines or in weapon platform does it say that the model loses the aiming bonus against models it is in melee with. Nor does it say that it gets to ignore the target in melee penalty against models in melee with itself.

Perfect! thank you for the clarity

Rynth
01-16-2014, 06:54 AM
Wouldn't Weapon Platform also ignore target in melee penalties? o.0 sorry for the confusion just really want to make sure i didn't make a bad call.

Here's a ruling for Weapon Platform not ignoring the in melee penalty. https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?113222-Siege-Animantarax-Weapon-Platform-in-melee

Though sprays do, so it matters more for non-War Wagon Weapon Platforms.