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View Full Version : Why is there a difference?



EnslavedYeti
01-25-2014, 12:50 PM
In reference to the final post of this. (https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?188764-Ignoring-stealth-and-intervening-models&p=2458010#post2458010) (Which got closed before I could inquire there.)

I would understand if the wording was such as "Ignores stealth on your target" but if they are making an attack then they ignore all stealth, not just the stealth of their target, or else it would say as much. Or is the issue with order of operations? I don't know if you check LoS before declaring entering into the "attack" stage or not...

Leonard_Dukes
01-25-2014, 01:17 PM
Suppose I have a model who ignores Stealth (such as with Eyeless Sight). That means that whether I'm making an attack, drawing line of sight for a charge, or just seeing if I have line of sight for some random effect, I ignore Stealth on all models. This means that models with Stealth who are more than 5" away - who would normally not block line of sight - now block line of sight to models beyond them.

Suppose in another case I have a model who only ignores Stealth when making attacks. This means that I only ignore the Stealth advantage on the model I am attacking. This means that you can have a whole wall of Stealth models between your model and mine and (if they're more than 5" away) they do not block line of sight but I ignore Stealth on the target, which means that I no longer automatically miss on ranged attack rolls.

When you say "If they are making an attack then they ignore all stealth, not just the stealth of their target", that's a misapplication of the rule. The Stealth advantage has two effects: one on attacks and one on line of sight. These two effects are processed differently and certain abilities only affect one but not the other. Eyeless Sight happens to ignore Stealth, full stop, so it ignores it both for line of sight purposes and for attack purposes.

If you ignored Stealth only for drawing line of sight, you would still automatically miss a Stealth model more than 5" away with ranged attacks. Likewise, if you ignore Stealth only for attack purposes, you still follow the rules for drawing line of sight through other Stealth models.

Canadianized
01-25-2014, 02:29 PM
If the model ignores stealth with an ability like True Sight or Eyeless sight, they always ignore stealth no matter what.

If the model ignores stealth only for the attack, then LOS is already drawn for the purposes of declaring the target, then when it comes to measuring the RNG of the attack, the rules for stealth auto-missing are ignored. The only time I remember offhand this is relevant is channeling.

EnslavedYeti
01-25-2014, 03:20 PM
If the model ignores stealth only for the attack, then LOS is already drawn for the purposes of declaring the target, then when it comes to measuring the RNG of the attack, the rules for stealth auto-missing are ignored. The only time I remember offhand this is relevant is channeling.

This makes sense, making it an order of operations thing which I thought might be the case. The use case here is where I could screen a stealth unit with other stealth, and then have true sight fail to actually benefit the user because now that they can see everything, they can see the screening unit.

Good to know that I have to look out for specific types of anti-stealth.