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mcpolle
03-13-2014, 02:32 PM
Hi Guys,

Just wanted to check something, if I have a Galleon, and move him ti within reach of a Stormwall, and then shoot the Stormwall with my Harpoon, if I damage him, do I get to make my melee attack as well?? Or does the thing actually have to move,

Kinda hard to work out on the card, if the model has to move or not.

Thx

Polle

Stormpuppy_Infantry
03-13-2014, 02:43 PM
https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?115134-Drag-vs-Cannot-Be-Moved

No, because you can't push Stormwall.

mcpolle
03-13-2014, 03:01 PM
It seems like it was answered one way, then in the other linked thread it was answered the other way, one saying, no and the other saying yes, both by Valander.

So I actually after reading both threads am more confused, that the same person answered the same question twice, but differently:-(

Or maybe I missed something there.

Polle

Stormpuppy_Infantry
03-13-2014, 03:05 PM
Oops. I checked that too. Then what is right? The later thread as forum rule?

juckto
03-13-2014, 03:21 PM
I think the confusion is that Valandar has put a generic response to multiple threads. As I read the original ruling + clarification, I see 3 scenarios:

1. You kill the model with the ranged shot. No drag, no free melee attack, no additional melee attacks.
2. You damage the model with the ranged shot, but it is immune to drag. No drag, no free melee attack, no additional melee attacks. Unless:
3. You damage the model with the ranged shot, but it is immune to drag, but it is already in your melee range. No drag, but you do get the free melee attack, and you can make additional melee attacks.

But an Infernal should probably confirm/deny my interpretation.

Leonard_Dukes
03-13-2014, 03:30 PM
To make that granted melee attack after Drag, the target must be in your melee range. Doesn't really matter how it got there.

The ability to make additional melee attacks is, however, contingent on that first melee attack after Drag having happened. "After the attack is resolved" cannot be satisfied if the attack never happens in the first place.

The confusion is stemming from the link above, in which Valander (seems to have) missed the part of the OP's question regarding the targeted Colossal/Gargantuan already being in melee. He seems to have covered that particular scenario in the quote above, taken from a related thread.

If you destroy the target model with the Harpoon shot, or your target is a model that cannot be Pushed and it is beyond your melee range, then you cannot make additional melee attacks that activation.

If your target is in melee range, you can make the Harpoon attack, skip the Drag since the model is unable to be Pushed, make the followup melee attack against that model granted by Drag, and then make additional melee attacks that activation.

Hick
03-13-2014, 03:44 PM
I agree with juckto. I doubt valander missed the ruling. It was two seperate rules interactions. One is targeting a model outside of range of the harpoon in melee and can't be moved and one is in melee and can't be moved. Two different rulings for two different situations.

solkan
03-13-2014, 04:00 PM
How is this in question?
See: https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?136279-Drag-vs-Cannot-be-Moved&p=1804426&viewfull=1#post1804426

Small additional clarification, since there still seems to be a bit of confusion.

First, I should not have said "effectively pushed zero" above, as that's not really accurate when a model cannot be pushed. I have removed that, because it actually doesn't matter.

However, the melee attack granted from Drag is not dependent on the push having happened; that is, it does not say "if this model was pushed." This is similar to Beatback, where the "after the model is pushed" is a timing issue.

To make that granted melee attack after Drag, the target must be in your melee range. Doesn't really matter how it got there.

The ability to make additional melee attacks is, however, contingent on that first melee attack after Drag having happened. "After the attack is resolved" cannot be satisfied if the attack never happens in the first place.
(Highlighting added.)

On the other hand, Drag starts out:

If this weapon damages an enemy model with an equal or smaller sized base, immediately after the attack is resolved the damaged model can be pushed any distance (i.e. untilb2b) directly toward this model. After the damaged model is moved, this model can make one normal melee attack against the model pushed. After resolving this melee attack, this model can make additional melee attacks during its combat action.

If you don't damage the enemy model, you stop because the rest of the rule depends on that "If this weapon damages an enemy model."

Centipede
03-14-2014, 11:32 AM
If this weapon damages an enemy model with an equal or smaller sized base, immediately after the attack is resolved the damaged model can be pushed any distance directly toward this model. After the damaged model is moved, this model can make one normal melee attack against the model pushed. After resolving this melee attack, this model can make additional melee attacks during its combat action.
Emphasis mine. This would seem to indicate that the movement is needed in order to get the melee attack.

Crate123
03-14-2014, 12:15 PM
Emphasis mine. This would seem to indicate that the movement is needed in order to get the melee attack.

Its a timing issue, as Valander said. If id had been a requirement it would have read something like "If the damaged model is moved.....".
You dont need to move the model, you just need it in your melee range.

Valander
03-14-2014, 12:25 PM
1. You kill the model with the ranged shot. No drag, no free melee attack, no additional melee attacks.
2. You damage the model with the ranged shot, but it is immune to drag. No drag, no free melee attack, no additional melee attacks. Unless:
3. You damage the model with the ranged shot, but it is immune to drag, but it is already in your melee range. No drag, but you do get the free melee attack, and you can make additional melee attacks.

But an Infernal should probably confirm/deny my interpretation.
This is correct.