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oncouch1
03-13-2014, 05:12 PM
So now that the ruling that Nyss hunters with Murdock is out. Do the stones with the ua count as living if the stone keeper is alive for purposes of being feated or regrowthed by either morvahna?

grimlock180
03-13-2014, 05:38 PM
no they don't count as living as their card stats construct an when model is destroyed no effects remain on models that are destroyed an u go by whats on the card. an as such they won't be able to be brought back.

bnf
03-13-2014, 05:42 PM
pMorvahna's Regrowth works because it targets a living unit, eMorvahna's Feat does not because it specifies living models.

grimlock180
03-13-2014, 05:48 PM
yeah pmorv regrowth would still work.

Crate123
03-13-2014, 07:38 PM
Im still a little fuzzy on that whole mess DC's "clarification" leads to so I ask this question: If you kill the Stone Keeper, does the unit stop being a living unit ?

solkan
03-13-2014, 10:24 PM
Im still a little fuzzy on that whole mess DC's "clarification" leads to so I ask this question: If you kill the Stone Keeper, does the unit stop being a living unit ?

Consider the variation of that question: The Stone Keeper model is removed from play by an ability. What remains that would cause the unit to qualify as a living unit?

Alviaran
03-14-2014, 02:21 AM
A unit (as a whole) consists of all the subtypes within the unit. In the case of a Shifting Stone unit with Stone Keeper, this makes them a living unit because the Stone Keeper is living. When a spell targets a model/unit or unit, then it will check to see if any of the required subtypes are there. Morvahna's Regrowth specifies a living unit, so the Shifting Stone + Stone Keeper unit is a valid target. Note that if the spell is on them and the Stone Keeper dies, the spells does NOT go away. The subtypes are only checked at targeting. If the spell came off the unit somehow, she could not reapply it without the Stone Keeper there, but killing him does not strip the spell. Also worth noting is that in that unit, there are only two Grunts (since the Stone unit is a Leader and 2 Grunts). That means if all three Stones are killed, you cannot Regrowth all three of them.

Some abilities will specify models instead. Morvahna2's feat is one such case. Since her feat brings back living models, it does not get to bring back Stones. The addition of the Stone Keeper makes the unit living, but not individual models therein. The Stones are still constructs and thus invalid targets.

Crate123
03-14-2014, 04:53 AM
Consider the variation of that question: The Stone Keeper model is removed from play by an ability. What remains that would cause the unit to qualify as a living unit?

After the "clarification" Im questioning everything even if it seems logical.

SOUPlex
03-14-2014, 05:26 AM
A unit (as a whole) consists of all the subtypes within the unit. In the case of a Shifting Stone unit with Stone Keeper, this makes them a living unit because the Stone Keeper is living. When a spell targets a model/unit or unit, then it will check to see if any of the required subtypes are there. Morvahna's Regrowth specifies a living unit, so the Shifting Stone + Stone Keeper unit is a valid target. Note that if the spell is on them and the Stone Keeper dies, the spells does NOT go away. The subtypes are only checked at targeting. If the spell came off the unit somehow, she could not reapply it without the Stone Keeper there, but killing him does not strip the spell. Also worth noting is that in that unit, there are only two Grunts (since the Stone unit is a Leader and 2 Grunts). That means if all three Stones are killed, you cannot Regrowth all three of them.

Some abilities will specify models instead. Morvahna2's feat is one such case. Since her feat brings back living models, it does not get to bring back Stones. The addition of the Stone Keeper makes the unit living, but not individual models therein. The Stones are still constructs and thus invalid targets.

This sounds really wrong to me. Do the Devil Dogs stop being a Character unit if Sam is killed?

MaGoff
03-14-2014, 05:48 AM
This sounds really wrong to me. Do the Devil Dogs stop being a Character unit if Sam is killed?
No, they are still a Character Unit. This is an exception to "the Sub type ruling" and is explicitly stated in Prime/Primal. I don't have the book right now so I can't give a page number :(

Alviaran is otherwise correct.