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Curufew
05-08-2014, 10:29 PM
Hi all, for this scenario, the objective grants boosted damage rolls for light artillery within 4". The question that I intend to ask would be whether the e-leaps generated from a stormsmith tower and blast damage from a mortar are boosted as well?

Mindless
05-08-2014, 10:51 PM
The electro leaps would most definitely not be boosted since they're an effect of the initial attack, not the initial attack. I also believe that most electro leaps (except some spells) specify that they are unboostable.

The blast damage on an AOE however would get boosted since the blast damage is not an effect of the attack in the same sense as the electro leap, the blast is the attack.

Curufew
05-08-2014, 11:05 PM
The electro leaps would most definitely not be boosted since they're an effect of the initial attack, not the initial attack. I also believe that most electro leaps (except some spells) specify that they are unboostable.

The blast damage on an AOE however would get boosted since the blast damage is not an effect of the attack in the same sense as the electro leap, the blast is the attack.

Thanks for your swift reply. However, the stormsmith e-leap doesn't state that it's unboostable. It just says each model the lightning arcs to suffers a Pow 10 electric damage roll.

Oshi
05-08-2014, 11:29 PM
Thanks for your swift reply. However, the stormsmith e-leap doesn't state that it's unboostable. It just says each model the lightning arcs to suffers a Pow 10 electric damage roll.

In addition, Ammunition cache does not specifically boost an "attack" damage roll but rather the "ranged weapon" gains boosted damage rolls. should the weapon somehow cause a damage rolls without it being an attack... ?

rydiafan
05-09-2014, 06:37 AM
The electroleaps would not be boosted, as they are not considered to be caused by the attacking model's weapon. Blast damage, however, would be boosted.

vintersbastard
05-09-2014, 06:45 AM
The electroleaps would not be boosted, as they are not considered to be caused by the attacking model's weapon. Blast damage, however, would be boosted.

Would you care to elaborate on the reasoning behind this? After all, Lightning Generator is a weapon rule.

dungeongod
05-09-2014, 08:39 AM
Would you care to elaborate on the reasoning behind this? After all, Lightning Generator is a weapon rule.

Because it is an effect of being hit, it is a side effect of the attack, not a damage FROM the attack. It is subtle (and weird, and strange, etc. etc) but it has been ruled that way several times. Pretty sure if you search this forum for "electro leap" you will see the ruling(s).

SpiderBite
05-09-2014, 08:41 AM
This post (https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?185135-Magical-Weapons-and-Electro-Leap&p=2403149&viewfull=1#post2403149) explains it better than i can.

rydiafan
05-09-2014, 09:47 AM
Would you care to elaborate on the reasoning behind this? After all, Lightning Generator is a weapon rule.

Infernal ruling stating that electroleap attacks are seperate from the weapon: https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?116982-Kruegar-s-Lightning-Tendrils-vs-Blackbanes-Ghost-Raiders&p=1564980&viewfull=1#post1564980

vintersbastard
05-09-2014, 09:58 AM
Two things:


Because it is an effect of being hit, it is a side effect of the attack, not a damage FROM the attack. It is subtle (and weird, and strange, etc. etc) but it has been ruled that way several times. Pretty sure if you search this forum for "electro leap" you will see the ruling(s).Firstly, the ability in question is not Electro Leap; I've learned a long time ago that rulings on Electro Leap don't work well as precedent for anything else.



Infernal ruling stating that electroleap attacks are seperate from the weapon: https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?116982-Kruegar-s-Lightning-Tendrils-vs-Blackbanes-Ghost-Raiders&p=1564980&viewfull=1#post1564980Secondly, that ruling has been reversed (https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?188862-A-Rules-Update&p=2459425&viewfull=1#post2459425); Electro Leaps can now be effects from magical weapons, with all relevant consequences.

Juris
05-09-2014, 10:13 AM
The electroleaps would not be boosted, as they are not considered to be caused by the attacking model's weapon. Blast damage, however, would be boosted.

They are not Electro Leaps. They are lightning generator attacks, are not optional, and are boostable. Specifically:

"When a model is hit with this weapon, lightning arcs from that model to d3 consecutive additional models. The lightning arcs to the nearest model it has not already arced to within 4" of the last model it arced to, ignoring this model. Each model the lightning arcs to suffers a POW 10 electrical damage roll."

On a caster, or a Storm Strider, these POW 10 damage rolls are boosted.

Contrast with the Electro Leap rule:

"When a model is hit with this weapon, you can have lightning arc to the nearest model within 4" of the model it, ignoring the attacking model. The model the lightning arcs to suffers an unboostable POW 10 electrical damage roll."

They are different. Does that change the analysis?

rydiafan
05-09-2014, 10:29 AM
Secondly, that ruling has been reversed (https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?188862-A-Rules-Update&p=2459425&viewfull=1#post2459425); Electro Leaps can now be effects from magical weapons, with all relevant consequences.

Hmmm... interesting.

I can only rule on the SR interaction based on the rules interaction. Infernals are in charge of the core rules. Everything hinges on whether the leaps come from the weapon. I'll look into what the current rules ruling is so that the SR ruling agrees with it.

Vorath
05-09-2014, 11:21 AM
technically, the hit model would be the new source of the electrical discharge (attack), so unboostable makes sense to me in this scenario.
That said, it making sense to me is very likely a reason that it will be ruled to go the other way. :(

vintersbastard
05-09-2014, 11:41 AM
technically, the hit model would be the new source of the electrical discharge (attack), so unboostable makes sense to me in this scenario.(
That doesn't make any sense at all - you're apparently confusing this with the Point of Origin rules.
Lightning Generator damage rolls come from the model with the ability, otherwise they wouldn't be boostable via focus/forcing/power tokens.

DemonCalibre
05-09-2014, 11:47 AM
When I read it, I read that it specifically worked with the Incorporeal rule, and not anything else, but I am interested.

solkan
05-09-2014, 11:59 AM
The Lightning Generator tactical tip, from Wrath pg 36:

The lightning still arcs to models with Immunity: Electricity, it just cannot damage them. Damage from Lightning Generator strikes is not considered to have come from a hit or by a melee or ranged attack.

That happens to be the same text (aside from the title) as the Tactical Tip for Electro Leap on the Tempest Blazers, on Vengeance pg 32, and for the Storm Cloud on page 81 of the Forces of Warmachine: Cygnar book.

Curufew
05-10-2014, 07:37 AM
So we're still pending for the verdict right?

rydiafan
05-10-2014, 12:48 PM
Yes. I am currently awaiting Infernal confirmation whether or not the additional damage rolls are considered to be caused by the weapon.

DarkLegacy
05-12-2014, 04:46 AM
Lightning Generator arcs would be boosted.

Curufew
05-12-2014, 08:03 AM
Thanks for the clarification