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View Full Version : The new "Spells & Effects" errata and timing



bitmatic
05-10-2014, 01:31 AM
If i want to move Kovnik Joe up and buff a unit - when can i check that the unit is in formation?

Can i check before i move Joe?
Do i check the range of the effect first, or do i check for formation?

vintersbastard
05-10-2014, 01:59 AM
You check when you choose the unit, which happens before you check range, as per Patriotic Speeches:

Patriotic Speeches - During this modelʼs activation, it can make one of the following speeches. When it does, choose a friendly Winter Guard unit. The speech affects this model and will affect the unit if it is in this modelʼs command range at the time this model made the speech.

You do not get to check for eligilibility of the unit before you try to choose, as per the usual need-to-know rules.

bitmatic
05-10-2014, 02:50 AM
I am not sure i agree with you. When we choose a unit we must choose a unit that is in formation, and therefore we need to know if they are in formation. It is no longer a legal thing to choose a unit that is not in formation.

solkan
05-10-2014, 02:58 AM
I am not sure i agree with you. When we choose a unit we must choose a unit that is in formation, and therefore we need to know if they are in formation. It is no longer a legal thing to choose a unit that is not in formation.

That line of reasoning doesn't hold true for other rules in the game. For example, the two inch requirement for secondary targets in strafe. Or determining whether a model is engaged before declaring a ranged attack.

bitmatic
05-10-2014, 03:08 AM
I find it to be completely the same as choosing a target when i shoot. I must choose a target i have LOS to. If that target is in a forest i am allowed to measure the 3" into the forest to determine if i can see him. It wouldn't really make sense otherwise.

If i now must choose a target that is in formation, then logically, i must be able to check if that unit is in formation? Or???

vintersbastard
05-10-2014, 03:30 AM
I am not sure i agree with you. When we choose a unit we must choose a unit that is in formation, and therefore we need to know if they are in formation. It is no longer a legal thing to choose a unit that is not in formation.
I'm unclear as to what exactly you're disagreeing with?
You asked whether you get to check before trying to choose a unit, e.g. before moving Jozef (I assume you meant closer to the unit, as it's otherwise irrelevant), which you don't. You certainly get to check when you try to choose a unit, but at that point you've decided to use a certain speech now. If the unit happens to be ineligible, you just get to pick a different unit, but you don't get to hold back on making the speech.

wazatdingder
05-10-2014, 03:59 AM
Um... The new rule restricts targeting. Joe sayschoose. It should not effect him without further rulings.

bitmatic
05-10-2014, 04:17 AM
Um... The new rule restricts targeting. Joe sayschoose. It should not effect him without further rulings.
The new arrata pertains to both choosing and targetting.


I'm unclear as to what exactly you're disagreeing with?
You asked whether you get to check before trying to choose a unit, e.g. before moving Jozef (I assume you meant closer to the unit, as it's otherwise irrelevant), which you don't. You certainly get to check when you try to choose a unit, but at that point you've decided to use a certain speech now. If the unit happens to be ineligible, you just get to pick a different unit, but you don't get to hold back on making the speech.

We probably don't disagree... The point i was stumbling to try and make is; that is i choose a unit that turns out to be out of formation, then i get to choose another. I read vinterbastards remark on not getting to check for eligilibility as contrary to that point. Re-reading it, i see that i may have misunderstood that.

Mod_Neldar
05-10-2014, 04:17 AM
Um... The new rule restricts targeting. Joe sayschoose. It should not effect him without further rulings.

It restricts targeting and choosing.

Straight Line
05-10-2014, 05:44 AM
Patriotic Speeches - During this modelʼs activation, it can make one of the following speeches. When it does, choose a friendly Winter Guard unit. The speech affects this model and will affect the unit if it is in this modelʼs command range at the time this model made the speech.

You choose the friendly Winter Guard unit as Joe makes speeches about patriotic subjects.
Unfortunately, you will only know if everyone can hear them when the unit activates, and you can check if everything is within formation. Kinda like the leader shouting too hard "Get the frak back in line!" to allow all the Winter Guard to actually hear Joe. And if the leader has to shout, nobody hears Joe and the speeches kinda miss their effect ;)

vintersbastard
05-10-2014, 06:17 AM
We probably don't disagree... The point i was stumbling to try and make is; that is i choose a unit that turns out to be out of formation, then i get to choose another. I read vinterbastards remark on not getting to check for eligilibility as contrary to that point. Re-reading it, i see that i may have misunderstood that.Ah, in that case, I'm sorry, I was probably a little bit too curt - yeah, you certainly get to pick another unit if the first one does not fulfil the formation requirement, if there's another one around at this point (the same way you get to pick another target for a spell if you happen to pick something untargetable first).



You choose the friendly Winter Guard unit as Joe makes speeches about patriotic subjects.
Unfortunately, you will only know if everyone can hear them when the unit activates, and you can check if everything is within formation.
This is incorrect - having the whole unit in formation is a requirement for them to be choosable for a speech, so formation needs to be checked at this point.