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View Full Version : Timing of impact attack deicision trigger with incorporeal



The_York
05-10-2014, 02:56 PM
Can a Venger under Teataments feat, move through a model, and then choose to make an impact attack on the other side of the unit while it's base is still touching?


I would think the impact decision would happen "as soon as it contacts another base" but it doesn't specifically say that.

Imagine this board state visually (V=venger, G=grunt, B=Beast):

Venger declars charge on beast.

V

G
G
G
<--- gap here for venger to fit
B

----------------------------------------

G
G
G <--- wants to take impact attack on the last model passed through with base still touching, after passing through it
V
B

solkan
05-10-2014, 03:47 PM
The model can't make impact attack on the last model it passed through because that model would be behind it, and out of its melee range.

Also, once the model is no longer overlapping the last G model, it would no longer be able to contact that model because contacting would require moving towards G. And the model can't stop while it is overlapping the model because that position would be invalid.

The definition of contact:

Models whose bases are touching are in base-to-base contact. If a model has an ability that allows it to move through another model, while it is moving through the other model they are considered to be in base-to-base contact.

One model contacts another when it changes from not being base to base with it to being base to base with it. Additionally, when a model is already base to base with another, and would move toward it, it is considered to contact it again.

The_York
05-10-2014, 04:11 PM
You can most certainly have your facing to where both models are in your front arc. You can assume it charged to one side, or has 360 vision for the sake of argument. As facing is not the question I'm posing.

It's can you choose to trigger your impact attack on the other side of the model, if you have incorporeal. Or do you have to choose to take your impact attack as soon as the base comes in contact?

Or can you take impact attacks at any time during contact in which you can stop your model.

Leonard_Dukes
05-10-2014, 04:59 PM
You can most certainly have your facing to where both models are in your front arc. You can assume it charged to one side, or has 360 vision for the sake of argument. As facing is not the question I'm posing.

It's can you choose to trigger your impact attack on the other side of the model, if you have incorporeal. Or do you have to choose to take your impact attack as soon as the base comes in contact?

Or can you take impact attacks at any time during contact in which you can stop your model.

Per related rulings involving Cavalry models with Incorporeal, Flight, Acrobatics, etc. - you can elect not to make Impact Attacks upon first contacting another model, and choosing instead to do so when contacting another model later on.

In your example, you could choose to move through Models G, and then make an Impact Attack upon contacting Model B. At that point, you would then make an Impact Attack against all models in your Mount's melee range. If your Model V has Circular Vision, then this might include the last Model G, depending on its distance to your base.

Bear in mind, though, that once you have contacted the last Model G (first became base-to-base with it), that is the only time that you can declare an Impact Attack against that model. When you "exit" on the other side, you are not "coming into contact" with that Model G again, as coming into contact only occurs in two cases: If you are not in base-to-base contact and you become in base-to-base contact or if you are already in base-to-base contact and something causes you to move toward that same model. Passing over the model after you have already contacted it will satisfy neither of these requirements.

In short: No, you cannot pass through/over a model and make an Impact Attack on the other side of it, unless you have also come into contact with another model at that point, and the model you just passed through is still somehow in your Mount's melee range.

The_York
05-10-2014, 08:18 PM
Per related rulings involving Cavalry models with Incorporeal, Flight, Acrobatics, etc. - you can elect not to make Impact Attacks upon first contacting another model, and choosing instead to do so when contacting another model later on.

This is what I thought, and how I argued, but I couldn't find the specific ruling that actually said "upon first" or "as soon as"

Your explanation made sense to me, and it was how I viewed the interaction, I just need to identify the rule that indicates that impact attacks trigger immediately upon contact.

Leonard_Dukes
05-10-2014, 08:47 PM
This is what I thought, and how I argued, but I couldn't find the specific ruling that actually said "upon first" or "as soon as"

Your explanation made sense to me, and it was how I viewed the interaction, I just need to identify the rule that indicates that impact attacks trigger immediately upon contact.


If a charging cavalry model contacts another model during its movement and has moved at least 3", it can stop and make impact attacks with its Mount (see "Mount," previous) against all models in the Mount's melee range.

The "trigger" for making an Impact Attack is contacting a model, and the effect is resolved immediately ("it can stop and..."). There is no verbiage indicating that the model is allowed to satisfy the condition (contact a model) and then resolve the effect at some later point (after it has advanced another 5"). In this case, I don't think there's any empty space between "read as written" and "read as intended".