Larnu

09-28-2014, 01:18 PM

Hi everyone,

I have a friend who has recently started playing Hordes, who has a query regarding the correct ruling for Combo Strike which I, and some friends, have been unable to prove wrong.

I'd like to first start by quoting the rules from the rule book, rather than explaining his theory, as it'll make more sense afterwards. What I'm looking for is for someone to prove him wrong.

Combo Strike Rule (Any model with Combo strike, i.e. Argus P 138 Primal):

BITE:

Make a melee attack. Instead of making a normal damage roll, the POW of the damage roll is equal to this model's STR plus twice the POW of this weapon.

Damage Rolls (P65 Primal)

In the case of melee attacks, rolls 2d6 and add the POW + Strength (STR), or P&S, of the attack. (boosted attacks sentence). Special rules for certain circumstances might modify the damage roll as well.

Damage roll = 2d6 +POW (+STR if melee)

Melee Weapons (P50 Primal)

Melee Weapons include such implements as spears... . Some models, such as warbeasts, have attack options allowing them to make attacks without their weapons (power attacks, for example)

Melee Damage roll = 2d6 + POW + STR

Combat Actions paragraph 4 (P49 Primal)

Special Actions listed as a rule of a melee weapon are melee special attacks. Special attacked listed as a rule of a ranged weapon are ranged special attacks. A special attack made with a ranged weapon counts towards ROF of the weapon. Special attacks listed as a rule of the model itself are neither melee attacks nor ranged attacks.

For the purposes of this post, I'm going to use a model with STR 8, and a weapon of POW 4. So this means that a normal melee attack would result in:

Damage 2d6 + POW + STR = 2d6 + 4 +8 = 2d6+12

So, my friends and I are under unanimous understanding that Combo Strike basically creates the following:

Damage = 2d6 + (2 * POW) + 8 = 2d6 + (2*4) + 8 = 2d6 + 8 + 8 = 2d6 + 16.

Our friend disagrees with this, using the wording of the above rules. We've searched, a fair amount, and haven't been able to disprove him, so if someone could and explain why, it would be great.

The wording of Combo Strike is "the POW of the damage roll is equal to this model's STR plus twice the POW of this weapon" The key part being "the POW of the damage roll". This means that he is therefore saying that the formula becomes (WPOW = Weapon Power):

Damage = 2d6 + POW + STR = 2d6 + (2 * WPOW + STR) + STR = 2d6 + (2* 4 + 8) + 8 = 2d6 + 16 + 8 = 2d6 + 24

The reason being that the wording says replace the POW of the damage roll, NOT the Power and strength. As it's a melee damage attack, you're therefore adding the strength onto the end (again), and therefore completely doubling the attack power. We've been able to find nothing that doesn't state that you don't add the Strength of a model to a special weapon attack, as the rules state that the formula is true for a melee attack (it's not a Power attack, which have different rules), so as it stands, he's correct.

So my question is, is he really right, and if not, prove it. :)

Thanks!

Larnu~

I have a friend who has recently started playing Hordes, who has a query regarding the correct ruling for Combo Strike which I, and some friends, have been unable to prove wrong.

I'd like to first start by quoting the rules from the rule book, rather than explaining his theory, as it'll make more sense afterwards. What I'm looking for is for someone to prove him wrong.

Combo Strike Rule (Any model with Combo strike, i.e. Argus P 138 Primal):

BITE:

Make a melee attack. Instead of making a normal damage roll, the POW of the damage roll is equal to this model's STR plus twice the POW of this weapon.

Damage Rolls (P65 Primal)

In the case of melee attacks, rolls 2d6 and add the POW + Strength (STR), or P&S, of the attack. (boosted attacks sentence). Special rules for certain circumstances might modify the damage roll as well.

Damage roll = 2d6 +POW (+STR if melee)

Melee Weapons (P50 Primal)

Melee Weapons include such implements as spears... . Some models, such as warbeasts, have attack options allowing them to make attacks without their weapons (power attacks, for example)

Melee Damage roll = 2d6 + POW + STR

Combat Actions paragraph 4 (P49 Primal)

Special Actions listed as a rule of a melee weapon are melee special attacks. Special attacked listed as a rule of a ranged weapon are ranged special attacks. A special attack made with a ranged weapon counts towards ROF of the weapon. Special attacks listed as a rule of the model itself are neither melee attacks nor ranged attacks.

For the purposes of this post, I'm going to use a model with STR 8, and a weapon of POW 4. So this means that a normal melee attack would result in:

Damage 2d6 + POW + STR = 2d6 + 4 +8 = 2d6+12

So, my friends and I are under unanimous understanding that Combo Strike basically creates the following:

Damage = 2d6 + (2 * POW) + 8 = 2d6 + (2*4) + 8 = 2d6 + 8 + 8 = 2d6 + 16.

Our friend disagrees with this, using the wording of the above rules. We've searched, a fair amount, and haven't been able to disprove him, so if someone could and explain why, it would be great.

The wording of Combo Strike is "the POW of the damage roll is equal to this model's STR plus twice the POW of this weapon" The key part being "the POW of the damage roll". This means that he is therefore saying that the formula becomes (WPOW = Weapon Power):

Damage = 2d6 + POW + STR = 2d6 + (2 * WPOW + STR) + STR = 2d6 + (2* 4 + 8) + 8 = 2d6 + 16 + 8 = 2d6 + 24

The reason being that the wording says replace the POW of the damage roll, NOT the Power and strength. As it's a melee damage attack, you're therefore adding the strength onto the end (again), and therefore completely doubling the attack power. We've been able to find nothing that doesn't state that you don't add the Strength of a model to a special weapon attack, as the rules state that the formula is true for a melee attack (it's not a Power attack, which have different rules), so as it stands, he's correct.

So my question is, is he really right, and if not, prove it. :)

Thanks!

Larnu~