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Leo_the_Rat
11-14-2014, 04:48 PM
This is the specific situation that I am addressing- If Thor is jack marshalling a Rockhammer and goes to pronto it and fails his roll then the jack can not use the marshall ability. However, if a caster enabled the Rockhammer to charge for free from say, boundless charge, could the jack use its assault rule?

Stormpuppy_Infantry
11-14-2014, 04:56 PM
Assault ability activates on a charge. So sure, it can use Assault on a charge.

solkan
11-14-2014, 06:01 PM
This is the specific situation that I am addressing- If Thor is jack marshalling a Rockhammer and goes to pronto it and fails his roll then the jack can not use the marshall ability. However, if a caster enabled the Rockhammer to charge for free from say, boundless charge, could the jack use its assault rule?

Do you mean to connect the two conditions?

Failing the drive roll only prevents the warjack from benefiting from Jack Marshall specifically, it doesn't prevent the warjack from benefiting from its own abilities or the abilities of other models. The fact that some ability produces the same result as one of the options of the Jack Marshall ability doesn't mean anything or cause any interaction.

In other words, no, losing the ability to benefit from Jack Marshall doesn't prevent the warjack from benefiting from some other effect saying "The warjack can use its normal movement to run or charge." You don't go through and put a bunch of "NOT"'s in the rules, the warjack just essentially has to ignore the Jack Marshall rule for the turn.

Leo_the_Rat
11-14-2014, 06:37 PM
I thought as much but was afraid that someone might be able to say that the jack couldn't charge without the marshall "ordering" it to do so.

Grey Templar
11-14-2014, 06:49 PM
Marshalled Jacks are no different from other jacks. They can still charge with any effect that allows a normal jack to do so, they do not need to use the JM benefit to charge. Its only one of the many things they can use it for.

Stormpuppy_Infantry
11-14-2014, 06:55 PM
Anyway the marshaled warjack can charge, so it is no wonder that it can use its Assault as well. Losing marshal benefit means that it only loses that, not also the abilities on the warjack.

solkan
11-14-2014, 07:27 PM
I thought as much but was afraid that someone might be able to say that the jack couldn't charge without the marshall "ordering" it to do so.

That's a reasonable concern. The rules for charging are a bit twisty, with how the requirements are specified. :) So you need to look at how the rules layer together.

You start with the rule that all warjacks are subject to:

A warjack must spend 1 focus point to charge during its normal movement.
(that same page is where the rules say that troopers have to receive an order).

Jack Marshalls don't order their warjack to charge. The Jack Marhall rules don't have anything in them that require the 'jack marshal to do something specifically to cause the warjack to charge.

What happens, instead, is that the player invokes this rule:

Once during each of its activations while in its controller's command range, a warjack controlled by a 'jack marshall can gain one of the following benefits:
* The warjack can use its normal movement to run or charge.
* ...
* ...

(There are probably lots of phrases that players use to invoke that particular rule. Describing it as "'jack marshall orders the jack the charge" is a bit inaccurate and potentially confusing, since orders are a specific game concept.)

The Jack Marshal ability provides that specific mechanism for getting around the requirement from page 47, but it doesn't have anything in its text prohibiting you from using some other effect to get around the requirement.

When the drive check is failed, you get stuck with the consequence:

If the 'jack marshal fails the check, the warjack cannot benefit from 'Jack Marshal for the rest of the turn.
So when the jack marshal fails its drive check, because you don't get to invoke that paragraph on page 80 any more, you need to find some other rule to get around the requirement from page 47, and you can use an effect like Boundless Charge to do so.