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Sand20go
12-11-2014, 07:40 AM
OK. This is too good to be true.

"Zoktavier's base FOCUS at the start of the game and during your first turn is automatically 7. Do not roll for Arcane Dementia."

Now the "They must have meant this" interpretation is that the second sentence has an implied meaning about just turn 1. But read verbatim (learning that about PP) would this mean that he is ALWAYS Focus 7. Cause it says "Base focus at the start of the game is 7" and goes on to state in a simple sentance, "Do not roll for Arcane Dementia." If they meant to say "Do not roll for Arcane Dementia on turn 1" would they not have said so?

Like I said, too good to be true but lets get a rule clarification.

chrisBatson
12-11-2014, 08:10 AM
There's no need for clarification. You don't roll for Arcane Dementia turn 1.

BeaZt28
12-11-2014, 08:18 AM
Your assuming that. But the wording doesn't say on turn 1. Rules are as literal as possible. We know that's what was implied, but that's not what it says.

Celebros
12-11-2014, 08:18 AM
OK. This is too good to be true.

"Zoktavier's base FOCUS at the start of the game and during your first turn is automatically 7. Do not roll for Arcane Dementia."

Now the "They must have meant this" interpretation is that the second sentence has an implied meaning about just turn 1. But read verbatim (learning that about PP) would this mean that he is ALWAYS Focus 7. Cause it says "Base focus at the start of the game is 7" and goes on to state in a simple sentance, "Do not roll for Arcane Dementia." If they meant to say "Do not roll for Arcane Dementia on turn 1" would they not have said so?

Like I said, too good to be true but lets get a rule clarification.

If you read the two sentences independently and applied your line of thought, I don't think Butcher would get 7 focus per turn. If you don't roll for Arcane Dementia, wouldn't your FOCUS just be 0+1? He does not have a static base FOCUS stat, so there is not reason it would default to 7 outside of the first turn Tier bonus or if he destroys three or more enemy models with melee attacks.

Sand20go
12-11-2014, 08:23 AM
If you read the two sentences independently and applied your line of thought, I don't think Butcher would get 7 focus per turn. If you don't roll for Arcane Dementia, wouldn't your FOCUS just be 0+1? He does not have a static base FOCUS stat, so there is not reason it would default to 7 outside of the first turn Tier bonus or if he destroys three or more enemy models with melee attacks.

No. It says "At the start of the game his base focus stat is 7." Frankly is it badly worded because if it is as we have been playing it for 3+ years you do not need the second sentence at ALL. It is completely redundant because we have completed everything we needed to do (give B2 7 focus on turn 1) with just the first.

BeaZt28
12-11-2014, 08:24 AM
But it says his base focus at the beginning of the game is 7, and not rolling for arcane dementia would imply that his base focus does not change. By ruling of sentence structure, there would be no questioning if it was a comma in place of that period. Its a seperate sentence with a seperate topic.

Edit: for further clarification of the point, the definition of a sentence is; a grammatical unit of one or more words that expresses an independent statement, question, request, command, exclamation, etc.
"Do not roll for Arcane Dementia." Where does it say to only follow this rule on turn 1?

DarkLegacy
12-11-2014, 08:48 AM
You do not roll for Arcane Dementia turn 1. After turn 1, you roll Arcane Dementia as per normal. Zoktavir2's focus does not stay at 7 permanently.

Sand20go
12-11-2014, 09:00 AM
Thanks! Second sentence of the tier should be deleted as the ruling makes it redundant.

BeaZt28
12-11-2014, 09:03 AM
I agree with this being the intent of the rule, but unfortunately, proper English is forcing me to believe it is an error that needs an errata. If you say the ruling is that it is only affected on turn one, you are saying that the statement is a sentence fragment.

DarkLegacy
12-11-2014, 09:12 AM
No errata will be made for this. It states how Arcane Dementia is handled for the first turn of the game for the Khador player.

Rofel
12-11-2014, 10:25 AM
Thanks! Second sentence of the tier should be deleted as the ruling makes it redundant.

You need to keep the 2nd sentence. Arcane Dementia states that you begin the game with D6+1 focus to start the game and then roll it during every control phase. Technically when you deploy, you roll for Arcane Dementia, and then when you begin your turn you'd roll again during your control phase.

Pretty much everyone just uses a shortcut and not drop focus during the 1st turn. This is pretty much never important but during MKI you did have top of turn 1 assassinations so starting the game with focus/fury was a relevant thing.

Sand20go
12-11-2014, 10:40 AM
OK...I am going to pitch (and be rejected but I can say I tried) that the right way to errata this is to remove the current wording and replace it with phrasing that mirrors the card for what happens with Orasus Zoktvia kills 3 or more models.

Tier 4
"At the beginning of the game and on turn 1 do not roll to determine his base Focus; it is automatically 7"

One of the reasons is that there is no such thing as "rolling for Arcane Dementia". That isn't a defined action. There is ROLLING of dice WITHIN A.D. but there are lots of other things going on in Arcane Dementia as well.