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BananazGorilla
03-12-2015, 09:51 PM
If a model moves straight through/over another model, and begins and ends the move in melee, would there be a freestrike? Really the question is whether or not a model's melee range extends inside of its own base, because if not, when a model is temporarily completely within another models base it would no longer be in melee. Where it would get really janky is if a model with tough and Ghostwalk makes a tough roll while inside an enemy's base, and the enemy would suddenly be pushed away because of the rules of least disturbance.

Cory
03-12-2015, 10:01 PM
A models melee range extends out from it's front arc so if you manage to be completely within the models base then the free strike for leaving melee would be permitted. On a different subject ghost walk does not let you move through models only obstructions, and then terrain and obstacles do not give penalties

Leonard_Dukes
03-12-2015, 10:06 PM
Really the question is whether or not a model's melee range extends inside of its own base, because if not, when a model is temporarily completely within another models base it would no longer be in melee.

A model's melee range extends beyond the model's front arc (Primal, p50) and as such does not pass through the model itself. If a small-based model that is in the melee range of an enemy model advances through that enemy model such that its base is completely overlapped by the enemy model's base, it has left that enemy model's melee range and will incur a free strike.



Where it would get really janky is if a model with tough and Ghostwalk makes a tough roll while inside an enemy's base, and the enemy would suddenly be pushed away because of the rules of least disturbance.

If an advancing model is forced to end its otherwise legal movement "on top of" another model (such as a Flight/Tough combination) the advancing model remains where it is and the rule of least disturbance is applied to any other model(s) nearby, as necessary.

BananazGorilla
03-12-2015, 10:08 PM
On a different subject ghost walk does not let you move through models only obstructions, and then terrain and obstacles do not give penalties
So it doesn't, I just misread it on battlecollege.

IceShadow
03-13-2015, 04:59 AM
Also, Ghostly (given by Ghost Walk) makes you immune to free strikes.

IceShadow
03-13-2015, 05:01 AM
If an advancing model is forced to end its otherwise legal movement "on top of" another model (such as a Flight/Tough combination) the advancing model remains where it is and the rule of least disturbance is applied to any other model(s) nearby, as necessary.

Is that how it works? Good to know. I probably would've rewound the model to its last legal position, like a model advancing through an incorporeal model that takes a free strike.

thatsdm2u
03-13-2015, 06:15 AM
A model's melee range extends beyond the model's front arc (Primal, p50) and as such does not pass through the model itself. If a small-based model that is in the melee range of an enemy model advances through that enemy model such that its base is completely overlapped by the enemy model's base, it has left that enemy model's melee range and will incur a free strike.
Well explained


If an advancing model is forced to end its otherwise legal movement "on top of" another model (such as a Flight/Tough combination) the advancing model remains where it is and the rule of least disturbance is applied to any other model(s) nearby, as necessary.

The last ruling I saw about this said otherwise LINK (https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?203662-Incorporeal-Charge-Spirit-Chaser&p=2715448&viewfull=1#post2715448), it states that: "If a model is advancing through a different model and loses the ability to do so while the bases are overlapping, it moves to the last legal position and resumes movement if possible." Has there been a newer ruling that I missed?

Leonard_Dukes
03-13-2015, 07:18 AM
The last ruling I saw about this said otherwise LINK (https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?203662-Incorporeal-Charge-Spirit-Chaser&p=2715448&viewfull=1#post2715448), it states that: "If a model is advancing through a different model and loses the ability to do so while the bases are overlapping, it moves to the last legal position and resumes movement if possible." Has there been a newer ruling that I missed?

That specifically refers to a case in which, by virtue of the free strike being made, the advancing model or the enemy model loses an ability that allows the advancing model to move through the enemy model, such as the advancing model losing Flight/Incorporeal or the enemy model losing Incorporeal, while the bases are still overlapped.

If the advancing model is forced to stop its advance, but not because it loses the ability to advance through the model if it could advance then least disturbance is used.

Ignoring the since-overridden portion on losing Incorporeal, see this reference: https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?53731-Incorporeal-and-Free-Strikes&p=742722&viewfull=1#post742722

thatsdm2u
03-13-2015, 07:32 AM
That specifically refers to a case in which, by virtue of the free strike being made, the advancing model or the enemy model loses an ability that allows the advancing model to move through the enemy model, such as the advancing model losing Flight/Incorporeal or the enemy model losing Incorporeal, while the bases are still overlapped.

If the advancing model is forced to stop its advance, but not because it loses the ability to advance through the model if it could advance then least disturbance is used.

Ignoring the since-overridden portion on losing Incorporeal, see this reference: https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?53731-Incorporeal-and-Free-Strikes&p=742722&viewfull=1#post742722

Thanks for the link, had not seen that one (probably because of the age of it).

DarkLegacy
03-13-2015, 07:32 AM
Checking...

solkan
03-13-2015, 04:23 PM
The last ruling I saw about this said otherwise LINK (https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?203662-Incorporeal-Charge-Spirit-Chaser&p=2715448&viewfull=1#post2715448), it states that: "If a model is advancing through a different model and loses the ability to do so while the bases are overlapping, it moves to the last legal position and resumes movement if possible." Has there been a newer ruling that I missed?


That specifically refers to a case in which, by virtue of the free strike being made, the advancing model or the enemy model loses an ability that allows the advancing model to move through the enemy model, such as the advancing model losing Flight/Incorporeal or the enemy model losing Incorporeal, while the bases are still overlapped.

If the advancing model is forced to stop its advance, but not because it loses the ability to advance through the model if it could advance then least disturbance is used.

Ignoring the since-overridden portion on losing Incorporeal, see this reference: https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?53731-Incorporeal-and-Free-Strikes&p=742722&viewfull=1#post742722

Please be aware of the relatively recent rulings change:
https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?203662-Incorporeal-Charge-Spirit-Chaser&p=2715448&viewfull=1#post2715448

This ruling replaces all previous ones:

1/ If a model is advancing through a different model and loses the ability to do so while the bases are overlapping, it moves to the last legal position and resumes movement if possible. The same is true if it is moving through terrain and loses the ability to do so.

2/ If a model is involuntarily moving through a different model, and loses the ability to do so while the bases are overlapping, it stops moving and you apply the rule of least disturbance.

This deals with all questions regarding Spirit Chaser, Treewalker, free strikes from Incorporeal models, et al.

See the linked thread for the discussion.

Leonard_Dukes
03-13-2015, 04:58 PM
Please be aware of the relatively recent rulings change:
https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?203662-Incorporeal-Charge-Spirit-Chaser&p=2715448&viewfull=1#post2715448


See the linked thread for the discussion.

What it's going to boil down to is what, exactly, is meant by "loses the ability to [advance through a different model]". That discussion thread and ruling dealt with the actual loss of a model ability/advantage that allows it to advance through another model or to have other models advance through it: losing Incorporeal due to making a free strike attack, losing Treewalker due to leaving a Forest template, etc. Suffering a free strike and becoming knocked down or affected by Shadow Bind doesn't, per se, remove a model's ability to advance through another model - much in the same way that Shadow Bind doesn't remove an ability's model to make a charge (a loose comparison, I know).

If the intent of that ruling is that "loses the ability to do so" means literally anything that stops the model from completely moving through the other model in question, then we've got a completely different conclusion than if it means "no longer has an ability that states it can advance through the other model".

But in any case, we're at the "Checking" stage, so I'll rest my case and wait to see what the Infernals have to say.

DarkLegacy
04-05-2015, 11:18 AM
This ruling replaces all previous ones:

1/ If a model is advancing through a different model and loses the ability to do so while the bases are overlapping, it moves to the last legal position and resumes movement if possible. The same is true if it is moving through terrain and loses the ability to do so.

2/ If a model is involuntarily moving through a different model, and loses the ability to do so while the bases are overlapping, it stops moving and you apply the rule of least disturbance.

This deals with all questions regarding Spirit Chaser, Treewalker, free strikes from Incorporeal models, et al.
It follows #1 of these two options.