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bloody nunchucks
03-16-2015, 11:47 AM
I wanted to clarify some things about checking line of sight, as the increased use of laser lines has lead to some questionable/interesting practices.

1) Can you use a straight edge/laser line/anyhing to check LOS from a spot on the table to another model/spot on the table?

2) Can you measure your control range, then while the tape mearure is being held out check LOS from a potential max advance to another model on the table? (I.E see if your caster can fully advance and then still be able to see and assassinate an enemy)

3) Are you able to use a laser line to check LOS from a model that is knocked down?

4) When checking LOS from your model to another, can you check LOS past a model that would block it? (I.E can a jack in base contact with two enemy jacks check LOS behind them to determine if it is worth the resources to somehow move one of the enemy jacks)

Thanks!

IceShadow
03-16-2015, 11:53 AM
The current Judge document stickied at the top of this forum has some answers for you:

https://privateerpressforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23947&d=1400166932


What are the legal uses of LOS tools?

A player can use a LOS tool, such as a laser, to check a model’s LOS at any time. The player does not need a target and is allowed to check the model’s LOS to anywhere on the table, though this must still be done legally (e.g., a player cannot check a model’s LOS behind its front arc unless its rules allow him to do so). If the LOS tool also measures distance, such as a tape measure held on its side, the player using it must obscure the distance in order to avoid giving either player an unfair advantage.

So using that, I would think the answer would be:

1) Only if where you're checking from is a model, not from a point on the table.

2) See above, so no, a measured distance away from a warcaster/warlock isn't a model. It's just a point on the table.

3) I don't see why not, though perhaps I'm mistaken.

4) Yes, because you can check from a model to any point on the table.

Just my interpretation and welcome to be disagreed or overruled :D

Leonard_Dukes
03-16-2015, 11:56 AM
1) Can you use a straight edge/laser line/anyhing to check LOS from a spot on the table to another model/spot on the table?

No. You may check your model's LOS at any time. A spot on the table does not have LOS. You can, instead, check LOS from one of your models to that spot.


2) Can you measure your control range, then while the tape mearure is being held out check LOS from a potential max advance to another model on the table? (I.E see if your caster can fully advance and then still be able to see and assassinate an enemy)

Although you can only make one measurement at a time (e.g., no holding one tape measure to advance a model while simultaneously measuring your Control Range) there doesn't appear to be any prohibition against measuring Control Area while simultaneously determining LOS. However, you can only measure a model's LOS from where the model is currently located. You cannot say "I'm going to check my Warcaster's LOS from where he will be if he advances this far."


3) Are you able to use a laser line to check LOS from a model that is knocked down?

Yes. Nothing about being knocked down removes a model's ability to draw LOS to another model or point on the board.


4) When checking LOS from your model to another, can you check LOS past a model that would block it? (I.E can a jack in base contact with two enemy jacks check LOS behind them to determine if it is worth the resources to somehow move one of the enemy jacks)

You sort of have to, if you think about it. If your Model A is positioned such that Models B and C might block LOS to Model D, the only way to be sure is to draw a LOS from Model A to Model D and see if Models B and/or C are intervening models. Even if it's clearly obvious that they would block LOS, you're still allowed to make that determination yourself using the appropriate tools, such as a laser line.

bloody nunchucks
03-16-2015, 12:00 PM
Thanks for the replys so far guys. Basically what I thought although I wasn't sure so I wanted to check.

The reason I included the knocked down question was because the Judges packet made it seem like you could only check LOS from a front arc of a model and knocked down models don't have a front arc.

EDIT: I was mixing up my rules on that, thanks Dukes for pointing that out.

Leonard_Dukes
03-16-2015, 12:04 PM
The reason I included the knocked down question was because the Judges packet made it seem like you could only check LOS from a front arc of a model and knocked down models don't have a front arc.

Knocked down models don't have a melee range but they absolutely still have a front arc. You might be thinking of the old MkI rules.

AcidOverride
03-16-2015, 12:51 PM
Although you can only make one measurement at a time (e.g., no holding one tape measure to advance a model while simultaneously measuring your Control Range)

Where did you find that? I'm not familiar with that rule.

Leonard_Dukes
03-16-2015, 12:59 PM
Where did you find that? I'm not familiar with that rule.

Reference:


You can only make one measurement at a time.

The_York
03-16-2015, 01:01 PM
So here's an interesting aside. The judge document says "a model" and not "a model you control". Does that mean I can check line of sight of my enemies models at any time?

"A player can use a LOS tool, such as a laser, to check a model’s LOS at any time."

IceShadow
03-16-2015, 01:03 PM
From the way it reads, it looks that way.

EDIT: Wrong, see solkan's post below!

solkan
03-16-2015, 01:08 PM
So here's an interesting aside. The judge document says "a model" and not "a model you control". Does that mean I can check line of sight of my enemies models at any time?

"A player can use a LOS tool, such as a laser, to check a model’s LOS at any time."

See the errata:

P. 43. LINE OF SIGHT.
Add the following lines to the first paragraph of this section:
Any time one model “targets” another model, it must have line of sight to that model. When a model “selects” another model, it need not have line of sight. A model’s controller can check its line of sight at any time.

The Judge's document isn't giving you more permission than the rules do, it's clarifying what you can use to do it with.