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thumpernickle
04-23-2015, 08:29 PM
A couple questions regarding measuring distances while resolving place effects.

While using the Shifting Stones' teleportation ability may the Circle player
1. measure melee range of the model being teleported to determine an exact placement (such as to stay out of the melee range of certain models will engaging other models)?
--I am quite certain the answer to this question is no, the player may not measure melee range while resolving this place effect based on these discussions/rulings.
https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?203689-Measuring-Melee-Range-When-Shifting-A-Model&highlight=measure+place
https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?208810-Shifting-Stones-and-similar-placement-effects&highlight=measure+place
https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?218861-Shifting-stones-teleport-and-checking-melee-range&highlight=teleportation
(https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?218861-Shifting-stones-teleport-and-checking-melee-range&highlight=teleportation)
2. measure control area to while determining a precise final placement for the model being teleported (such as to ensure it is in the warcaster's control)?
--I believe the answer is yes because measuring control is an anytime ability for the player, not the model. However, there seems to be a strong theme of once placed legally, it is placed. So no adjustments to find the perfect spot. The only discussions/rulings I found are listed below, but my search ability may be weak.
https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?202988-Measuring-Control-While-Moving&highlight=measuring+control+movement
(https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?202988-Measuring-Control-While-Moving&highlight=measuring+control+movement)
Do the above answers apply to other place effects, like the spell Telekinesis and the Blackclad Wayfarer's Phase Jump?

Stormpuppy_Infantry
04-23-2015, 09:32 PM
1: As you suspected, a model is placed after the effect is resolved so the placed model can measure its melee range only after placed.

2: You can measuring control area at any time. It is not same as 'any time during this model's activation' ability, and it is truly at any time.

Leo_the_Rat
04-24-2015, 03:17 AM
You can (and sometimes must) measure to make sure the placement is correct as per the placing ability. For instance you must measure if you place a blackclad near a shifting stone if there is a question as to it being within 2" of the stone after using phase jump to be placed near it.

thumpernickle
04-24-2015, 05:55 AM
2: You can measuring control area at any time. It is not same as 'any time during this model's activation' ability, and it is truly at any time.

Sorry, but I just want to be clear on this. So while resolving the Shifting Stones' Teleportation ability on a Stalker, I can place the Stalker (or a proxy base), check that it was within 8" of its starting location, check my control area to determine if the Stalker is exactly where I want it and if not adjust my Stalker placement again, check again for legal placement (within 8" of starting location), and repeat checking both legal placement (8") and control area until I find the perfection location. I just cannot check melee range during all of this.

Grey Templar
04-24-2015, 06:57 AM
That is correct, although to ensure accuracy in that you are meeting the 8" requirement you will basically be forced to use a proxy base.

So the order goes,

1) Place proxy base in a desired location.

2) measure to see if base is within 8" and thus a legal position.

3) If it was a legal position, move the model to that location. If it was not, restart the process until you have a legal placement location.

So if your first guess was a legal position for the placement, but it happens to be out of your desired melee range then thats too bad.

Ingof
04-24-2015, 08:19 AM
So while resolving the Shifting Stones' Teleportation ability on a Stalker, I can place the Stalker (or a proxy base), check that it was within 8" of its starting location, check my control area to determine if the Stalker is exactly where I want it and if not adjust my Stalker placement again, check again for legal placement (within 8" of starting location), and repeat checking both legal placement (8") and control area until I find the perfection location. I just cannot check melee range during all of this.

I'd say not quite. As soon as you check if the place is legal (8" of stating location) and it is, the place is done. I think you could adjust the proxy based on a control area measurement as much as you want before doing that check (between #1 and #2 above).

Marx
04-24-2015, 08:59 AM
If the placement is illegal (ie: further than 8" away), does it move in a straight line until it IS legal (like tossing out a Lightning Pod from a Stormwall), or are you allowed to pick it up and put it someplace completely different?

lord17c
04-24-2015, 08:59 AM
based off the links I think 1 is a no. and 2) I would say you can check the control area, but once you port you have to keep that in mind. Most people i have seen do this just check their control area and then will only port out that far. So two would be a "sort of" yes.

IceShadow
04-24-2015, 09:23 AM
Past rulings have said that since it is a place, you would pick the proxy up and try again somewhere else, not necessarily along the straight line. (This is different from proxy use for an advance.)

AcidOverride
04-24-2015, 10:41 AM
If the placement of the Proxy is not legal, you choose another placement for it. Nothing in the rules state you much follow the same line you started with.

Grey Templar
04-24-2015, 11:59 AM
If the placement is illegal (ie: further than 8" away), does it move in a straight line until it IS legal (like tossing out a Lightning Pod from a Stormwall), or are you allowed to pick it up and put it someplace completely different?

You pick it up and place it somewhere different.

Repeat till you have a legal placement(within 8" of the starting location)

thumpernickle
04-24-2015, 12:35 PM
That is correct, although to ensure accuracy in that you are meeting the 8" requirement you will basically be forced to use a proxy base.

So the order goes,

1) Place proxy base in a desired location.

2) measure to see if base is within 8" and thus a legal position.

3) If it was a legal position, move the model to that location. If it was not, restart the process until you have a legal placement location.

So if your first guess was a legal position for the placement, but it happens to be out of your desired melee range then thats too bad.

In this sequence, when is measuring control area allowed?

Grey Templar
04-24-2015, 12:41 PM
Any time between the steps.

thumpernickle
04-24-2015, 04:26 PM
Ok. Thanks.

SmellyTerror
04-24-2015, 10:53 PM
Any time between the steps.

Any time FULL STOP.

You could have a tape measure lying on the table measuring from your caster to the edge of their control area, and just leave it there all game if you like, and use a second tape measure for all the other stuff.

Leonard_Dukes
04-24-2015, 11:56 PM
Any time FULL STOP.

You could have a tape measure lying on the table measuring from your caster to the edge of their control area, and just leave it there all game if you like, and use a second tape measure for all the other stuff.

You may only make one measurement at a time. (https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?117877-Multiple-measurements-at-same-time&p=1577656&viewfull=1#post1577656)

Aside from that, yes, you can measure your Control Area at any time (including while placing a proxy base).

Marx
04-26-2015, 06:17 AM
So wait, just for full clarity: If I declare I want to play a Lightning Pod in a position, and it ends up being out of range (ie: outside "Completely within 10" from the Stormwall"), do I have to move it back in a straight line until it is in a legal position (like a Trample), or do I get to pick up the pod and put it somewhere else?

This would be a massive boon to me if it works the 2nd way (which is what I think people are saying), and not the first way (which has been the way I've played it since release)!

Caladian
04-26-2015, 06:24 AM
Marx, it is definitely the second way. Since, it isn't a move, but a place, per the placement rules on pg 48, you have to rewind and attempt to choose a new legal placement.

Marx
04-26-2015, 12:18 PM
Oh, today is a *good* day... ^_^