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View Full Version : League Heros play in tiers out of Faction.



fineredvin
07-25-2015, 12:56 PM
I play Magnus2 Bad Seeds list. In that list the model for the Mercinaries league Hero is not allowed, however, the Cygnar hero is in a unit of Rangers. Because this is my go-to list, can the UC of my ranger unit be my league hero?

F

Grey Templar
07-25-2015, 01:05 PM
No. The league rules are quite explicit that you can only use your factions hero.

fineredvin
07-25-2015, 01:14 PM
Thank you....

Sykes7710
07-25-2015, 02:58 PM
It's worth adding to ask your EO, though you may have done that anyway. As with anything else, it's at their discretion, but this specific (narrow) case seems like there's a real good argument for the EO to make an adjustment.

Should anyone else with a similar question hit this topic.

Leo_the_Rat
07-25-2015, 05:17 PM
Personally I would allow it just due to the fact that under the tier it states that the ranger is considered a mercenary faction model.

Grey Templar
07-25-2015, 05:30 PM
Personally I would allow it just due to the fact that under the tier it states that the ranger is considered a mercenary faction model.

Yes, the Ranger is. Not the League Hero Ranger.

Leo_the_Rat
07-25-2015, 06:43 PM
The hero models are the unit leaders. Rangers are eligible to be taken in Bad Seeds and to be treated as mercenary units. So, it seems to me that he is selecting the Cygnar unit with Hero and both the unit and the hero become mercenary. I would say that this is akin to Constance Blaize's status. When she is in a Cygnar army she is a Cygnar model. When she is in a Mercenary Army she is a Mercenary model. I see no reason not to treat the ranger in the same manner.
The player should only be able to take upgrades from the ranger table and everything should be fine.

Sycak
07-25-2015, 08:55 PM
I'd ask the EO. If I was running the league I would allow it though.

Stormpuppy_Infantry
07-25-2015, 10:04 PM
The hero models are the unit leaders. Rangers are eligible to be taken in Bad Seeds and to be treated as mercenary units. So, it seems to me that he is selecting the Cygnar unit with Hero and both the unit and the hero become mercenary. I would say that this is akin to Constance Blaize's status. When she is in a Cygnar army she is a Cygnar model. When she is in a Mercenary Army she is a Mercenary model. I see no reason not to treat the ranger in the same manner.
The player should only be able to take upgrades from the ranger table and everything should be fine.

Not really. You can use Ranger Leader model as the hero model only if you choose Cygnar as your faction. Choose to use Bad Seeds theme force means that you choose Mercenary as your faction, not Cygnar, so you can't use him as the hero model. Whatever you can use Rangers or not, it have really no meaning. The only important thing is your faction.

Check the hero rules;


A player can select a Hero only from the faction he is playing.

Leo_the_Rat
07-26-2015, 03:55 AM
And I would argue that specific overrides the general rule. Generally you must pick a hero from a faction that you are playing. Since more times than not that covers the situation there is no problem. In this case you have a specific rule that allows the model to be played in a different faction. As such I would say that the model is then open to use in that specific instance.

It really doesn't matter what we say. It only matters what the EO says or if there is an official ruling on the matter. So, to the OP ask your EO.

Stormpuppy_Infantry
07-26-2015, 04:06 AM
And I would argue that specific overrides the general rule. Generally you must pick a hero from a faction that you are playing. Since more times than not that covers the situation there is no problem. In this case you have a specific rule that allows the model to be played in a different faction. As such I would say that the model is then open to use in that specific instance.

And nothing override this. Nothing in Path of Devastation rules, or Shattered Lives rules, or even in Bad Seeds, says that you can take Ranger Leader as your hero model. Remember that no rules says that you can use such models as your hero model if you can use them. The rules just says that you can use the hero depend on your faction. Whatever you can use the Rangers in your Mercenary list or not, or they are a friendly faction unit or not, if you are not playing Cygnar you can't use them as a Hero model. No rules are says otherwise, and actually some rules are says that you can't.



It really doesn't matter what we say. It only matters what the EO says or if there is an official ruling on the matter. So, to the OP ask your EO.

It is EO's authority to make a houserule, but I remember that here is not the place to discuss about the houserule. Isn't? In here, we discuss about the official rules.

Leo_the_Rat
07-26-2015, 06:04 AM
I wouldn't be too sure that it would be a house rule. The tier rules grant the OP the ability to take rangers. The ranger leader can be a hero figure. It may be an unforseen loophole but it is there.
It's obvious that you disagree but it's all opinion until some official says one way or the other. In this instance the official is the EO of wherever the OP is playing.

Stormpuppy_Infantry
07-26-2015, 06:34 AM
I wouldn't be too sure that it would be a house rule. The tier rules grant the OP the ability to take rangers. The ranger leader can be a hero figure. It may be an unforseen loophole but it is there.

No, that's wrong. Why allows to use the Rangers becomes 'I can use the Ranger Leader as the Hero model'? Both of them have really no connections.

It is true that Bad Seeds allows to use Rangers unit as a Mercenary unit. But it have no meaning for this, because you must playing Cygnar in order to use Ranger Leader Hero.


A player can select a Hero only from the faction he is playing.


...The following are the Hero models for this season:


Cygnar – Rangers Leader

...

Mercenaries – Steelhead Riflemen Leader*




This rule prevents to use the other faction's heroes at all. And Mercenary faction's Hero model is not Rangers Leader. Also nothing allows to use your models as the hero model if you can use the original model.

Remember, Bad Seeds is a Mercenary theme force, so your faction is Mercenary, not Cygnar. That is the along reason why that list cannot use the Cygnar Hero model. As I repeated, whatever the list can use the Rangers or not, it have really no meaning. The only important thing is your faction.


It's obvious that you disagree but it's all opinion until some official says one way or the other. In this instance the official is the EO of wherever the OP is playing.

It is the rules that says no, and I just show you the rules.

fineredvin
07-26-2015, 07:06 AM
Wow, I didn't mean to start up this much of a stir. Had I been able to purchase the Steelhead Riflemen and used them-- I would. They are just not allowed in the list. Well, barring a specific ruling, I have more info to present to the powers that be here...