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whats82
08-06-2015, 06:59 AM
Re: Immortal UA

He is CMD8 and officer and not fearless. The rules on command checks says the officer makes the command check. However, the rest of the unit are constructs and are not affected by failed command checks.

So, questions.

1) Is this intended or an oversight ?
2) If a unit charges in, fails a check, does the individual models still get to make their charge attacks ?
3) If they start a turn with the UA fleeing, can the unit still activate normally (aka; advance, attack) as long as they stay in CMD of the officer ?

DarkLegacy
08-06-2015, 07:11 AM
1. It is not an oversight.
2. Only the Extoller Advocate model would be fleeing, no other model in the unit is fleeing.
3. Being in formation and not fleeing are the relevant requirements for making an attack within a unit. When a model is fleeing, it does not lose its formation status, that can only be changed by table conditions (being in or out of formation). The Officer will still have a formation and command range while fleeing.

Larnu
08-06-2015, 07:25 AM
1. It is not an oversight.
2. Only the Extoller Advocate model would be fleeing, no other model in the unit is fleeing.
3. Being in formation and not fleeing are the relevant requirements for making an attack within a unit. When a model is fleeing, it does not lose its formation status, that can only be changed by table conditions (being in or out of formation). The Officer will still have a formation and command range while fleeing.

I assume this means that the unit would NOT be able to receive commands while the Officer is fleeing, as the Officer cannot give them?

Jetelu
08-06-2015, 07:26 AM
Can a fleeing officer issue orders?

DarkLegacy
08-06-2015, 07:27 AM
Pg 85 of Prime. One of the effects of fleeing is being unable to give orders.

Mitsuharu
08-06-2015, 08:29 AM
So how does this interact with spells/abilities that cause model/unit to flee? For example Hellfire. If an Immortal is hit by Hellfire does the UA take the check? What if one Immortal in the unit moves within 3" of a model with Abomination?

DarkLegacy
08-06-2015, 08:31 AM
So how does this interact with spells/abilities that cause model/unit to flee? For example Hellfire. If an Immortal is hit by Hellfire does the UA take the check? What if one Immortal in the unit moves within 3" of a model with Abomination?
They are already taking the check. Most people just don't roll it because it doesn't matter when the entire unit is Fearless.

The check is rolled in either of the situations you've outlined. If the check fails, the Extoller Advocate will flee.

elladan52
08-06-2015, 08:50 AM
Just to be clear, the answer to question 2 is yes, right? Only the UA is fleeing so he would be the only one to losee his attack? And once the unit breaks Immortals could still advance and attack, just not receive orders, right?

Larnu
08-06-2015, 09:00 AM
Just to be clear, the answer to question 2 is yes, right? Only the UA is fleeing so he would be the only one to losee his attack? And once the unit breaks Immortals could still advance and attack, just not receive orders, right?
That's right. The Immortals can act normally, as they are still fearless, just won't receive any orders as the UA, and Officer, is fleeing.

Edit: so many commas!!!

AcidOverride
08-06-2015, 09:07 AM
Remember also that checks that are made at a MODEL level will not matter unless the UA is the one affected by it. Terror/Abomination/Massive Casualties are all UNIT level Command checks, so will be made, and if failed will cause the UA to flee.

Leo_the_Rat
08-06-2015, 09:07 AM
They still have to stay within the UA's CMD or else they will be out of formation and suffer those effects.

konee
08-06-2015, 05:00 PM
I have my doubts about models with terror.

Suppose a unit of immortals with UA is issued a charge order and an immortal walks into melee with a guy with terror. Unfortunately I don't pass the terror check. Hence my officer flees. According to page 87 in Primal, if a model/unit is forced to flee during its activation, the activation immediately ends. So even though most guys are not fleeing, one guy is. Does it mean that the whole unit flees and so, the whole unit ends its activation?

Another reasoning for ending the activation of the whole unit (instead of just the UA) goes as follows: one guy is fleeing, so his activation ended, but during a unit's activation you don't activate one guy after another. You perform each step of activation for every member of the unit. So, by being forced to flee, one guy has finished all steps of the activation and therefore the others are also forced to end.

Am I wrong in any of these?

DarkLegacy
08-06-2015, 05:06 PM
When a model runs and the rest of the unit charges, you don't lose all the charge attacks due to the running model's activation ending.

Disarray
08-07-2015, 01:03 AM
Wait, if only an immortal get's close to an Abomination, the entire squad has to take a check, because it contains on non-fearless model ?

konee
08-07-2015, 01:05 AM
Thanks, Dark Legacy. That's positive.

@Disarray yes. It's a unit-wide command check, not a model's own.

Thanatos_elNyx
08-07-2015, 05:07 AM
Wait, if only an immortal get's close to an Abomination, the entire squad has to take a check, because it contains on non-fearless model ?

Yes but only the UA suffers the consequences.

Mod_Neldar
08-07-2015, 05:56 AM
Wait, if only an immortal get's close to an Abomination, the entire squad has to take a check, because it contains on non-fearless model ?

No. It has to take a check because it encountered a terrifying entity.

All units have to check, but it's typically skipped for units that have fearless or similar abilities.

RejjeN
08-07-2015, 07:04 AM
The test is taken after all(the units) movement however, right?

DarkLegacy
08-07-2015, 07:11 AM
The test is taken after all(the units) movement however, right?

Yes, it is.