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Rangerbob
10-08-2015, 10:08 AM
Can the Desert Hydra make additional melee attacks after making a Concentrated Blast *Attack?

Grey Templar
10-08-2015, 10:12 AM
Yes. As per Multiple Heads, it is allowed to make its initial attacks as any combination of melee or ranged attacks and then can only make additional melee attacks.

So you use your initials to make Concentrated Blast, which is a ranged attacks. You may then buy additional melee attacks.

Rangerbob
10-08-2015, 10:21 AM
So a *Attack still counts as an Initial Attack, and it can still buy Additional Melee Attacks despite Concentrated Blast being a Ranged Attack? Just wanting to make sure I understand the interactions before it comes up mid game.

Grey Templar
10-08-2015, 10:23 AM
Its not an initial attack, its a *attack. Multiple Heads just specifies that you cannot purchase additional ranged attacks.

Rangerbob
10-08-2015, 10:26 AM
But the multiple head rule specifies Initial Attacks may be a combination of Ranged or Melee, but nowhere does it explicitly say it can still make both Ranged and Melee when not doing normal Initial Attacks.

Grey Templar
10-08-2015, 10:29 AM
* attacks are done instead of your normal initials, but I believe they still follow the normal rules which apply. In this case Multiple Heads still applies and allows purchasing additional melee attacks even if you made a ranged attack(or *attack)

Rangerbob
10-08-2015, 10:36 AM
I would like that to be the case, but I'm not 100% sure that is the correct interpretation of the Multiple Heads rules :confused:

Leonard_Dukes
10-08-2015, 11:32 AM
[wrong answer, rewriting]

DarkLegacy
10-08-2015, 11:34 AM
Regardless of the Multiple Heads rule, the Desert Hydra can make additional melee attacks after making initial ranged attacks or a special ranged attack because it has the Virtuoso ability.
Are you sure? I do not have it as an ability it possesses.

Leonard_Dukes
10-08-2015, 11:36 AM
Are you sure? I do not have it as an ability it possesses.

Yeah, I just redacted that answer. That's what I get for quoting from memory. I was thinking of the Storm Raptor. I'm pretty sure the Desert Hydra can still make additional melee attacks, but I'm trying to get the rules quotes to back it up.

RubberTurkeyLeg
10-08-2015, 11:39 AM
https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?57234-Multiple-heads-and-buying-attacks&p=798959&viewfull=1#post798959

Typhon can buy additional melee attacks even if all his initials were sprays. The question is, does this reasoning apply following a ranged special attack?

Rangerbob
10-08-2015, 11:45 AM
Just to add a possibly relelvent rules quote from war room

"Unless otherwise noted, a model cannot make both melee and ranged attacks in the same combat action (including when making additional attacks)"

Multiple Heads gives a way around this for Initial Attacks. But the question seems to be does it also apply to a *attack?

Patriots40001
10-08-2015, 11:48 AM
EDIT: I was wrong. Models do not forfeit their initials to make a star attack.....but the hydra has gunfighter which allows it to make range attacks in melee. So I believe it can. Multiple heads also states you can use any combination of sprays and melee attacks but can only buy more melee attacks

Leonard_Dukes
10-08-2015, 12:24 PM
https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?57234-Multiple-heads-and-buying-attacks&p=798959&viewfull=1#post798959

Typhon can buy additional melee attacks even if all his initials were sprays. The question is, does this reasoning apply following a ranged special attack?

That's something along the lines of what I was looking for.

Notably, Macallan didn't rule that Typhon could buy additional melee attacks even if all of its initials were ranged attacks, but even if none of its initials were melee.

When a model makes a special attack, it is choosing not to make its initial attacks. In the case of Concentrated Blast, none of the Desert Hydra's initial attacks (which aren't made at all) are melee attacks.

When taking all these rulings in concert, Multiple Heads seems to be a sort of "poor man's Virtuoso" - an ability that allows a model to make both ranged and melee attacks in the same activation, but with the caveat that its set number of initials can be mix-and-matched between the two, and that no additional ranged attacks can be made.

Based on all that, I'd say that the Desert Hydra can make a ranged special attack (Concentrated Blast) and then make additional melee attacks.

RubberTurkeyLeg
10-08-2015, 01:09 PM
Notably, Macallan didn't rule that Typhon could buy additional melee attacks even if all of its initials were ranged attacks, but even if none of its initials were melee.

I'd be wary of reading too much into that, as it's specifically about Typhon, and we can't assume there was foreknowledge of another Multiple Heads model 4+ years ago.

Kyuss
10-08-2015, 01:34 PM
So we cannot make 5 special attacks due to multiple heads?

sorry - coming back to the game after nearly three years off. I remember you give up your initial for one special but....

Leonard_Dukes
10-08-2015, 01:39 PM
So we cannot make 5 special attacks due to multiple heads?

sorry - coming back to the game after nearly three years off. I remember you give up your initial for one special but....

When a model chooses to make a combat action, it can choose to do one of the following:

1. Make a normal melee attack with each of its melee weapons (i.e. initial melee attacks).

2. Make a normal ranged attack with each of its ranged weapons (i.e. initial ranged attacks).

3. Make one special attack allowed by its special rules.

4. Make one power attack (if it did not use its movement to charge)

Multiple Heads allows a model to do both 1 and 2 (with a limit on how many total attacks can be made), but does not change the rules for making a special attack.

SBer56
10-09-2015, 06:50 AM
So, it can spray 5 times and make 5 melee attacks?

lobachevskii
10-09-2015, 06:54 AM
So, it can spray 5 times and make 5 melee attacks?

No. It can make a total of 5 initial attacks which can be either ranged or melee attacks in any combination. You can then buy melee attacks by forcing for Fury.

theHman
10-09-2015, 04:57 PM
So, it can spray 5 times and make 5 melee attacks?

No.
5 initial sprays.
4 bought melee attacks (Fury 4).

DivideBy0
10-09-2015, 07:21 PM
edit: wrong thread