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shady
10-09-2015, 04:20 PM
hello i don't recall seeing this? maybe i missed it not to sure though. The Hydra hass 360 vision. my question is can it do a sweep attack 360. It has no arch. so does that stand yes or no. Thank you for for yourr time Cheers

AT0MSK
10-09-2015, 05:27 PM
the rules for gargantuans still apply here. the 360 degree field rule is applied to the hydra itself, not to it's head attack. the wording under sweep says 'in this weapon's field of fire', meaning any special attacks with the weapon are defined by a field of fire

SeoNN
10-10-2015, 04:38 AM
WRONG . second sentence of sweep wording says
A gargantuan must have at least one melee weapon in its left or right field of fire to make a sweep power attack. so hydra cant do sweep ever

AT0MSK
10-10-2015, 04:43 AM
man, if only i could read.

thanks for pointing that out!

wolf9416
10-10-2015, 05:24 AM
WRONG . second sentence of sweep wording says so hydra cant do sweep ever

Is that from the book? Because that is not how it is worded on Warroom.

From the Hydra's card on warroom:

"A gargantuan must have at least one non-crippled melee weapon to make a sweep power attack. This model makes one melee attack with the weapon against each model in the weapon's field of fire that is within the model's 2" melee range."

There is no mention of a "left" or "right" field of fire requirement.

DivideBy0
10-10-2015, 06:09 AM
Is that from the book? Because that is not how it is worded on Warroom.

From the Hydra's card on warroom:

"A gargantuan must have at least one non-crippled melee weapon to make a sweep power attack. This model makes one melee attack with the weapon against each model in the weapon's field of fire that is within the model's 2" melee range."

There is no mention of a "left" or "right" field of fire requirement.

SeoNN's quote is the same as it is in Gargantuans, page 18. Though, if the Hydra has something different on its card that lets it break that specific rule, then it is clearly allowed to break that specific rule, since card rules trump overall rules.

Leo_the_Rat
10-10-2015, 06:30 AM
Wolf left out a critical part of the sweep rule for the Hydra.

"A gargantuan can use its arms to scythe through models within its reach."

So, RAW a hydra can not make a sweep attack since it doesn't have arms.

However, if a ruling does come down that it can sweep, then as written the field of fire for its bite is 360 so it would sweep totally around its base.

Saraminss
10-10-2015, 06:33 AM
i think the field of fire thing was an errata

SeoNN
10-10-2015, 09:21 AM
That not about errata but diffrece between colossal and gargantua books

Leonard_Dukes
10-10-2015, 10:37 AM
Hordes: Gargantuans, Facing and Line of Sight, p16 - Weapons located on a gargantuan's left side (L) can target only models in its left field of fire. Weapons located on a gargantuan's right side (R) can target only models in the gargantuan's right field of fire. Weapons with locations "H" or "-" can target models in either field of fire.


Hordes: Gargantuans, Sweep, p18 - A gargantuan must have at least one melee weapon in its left or right field of fire to make a sweep power attack. This model makes one melee attack with the weapon against each model in the weapon's field of fire and within its 2" melee range.


A weapon that has a head location (H) or no location (-) satisfies the requirements for Sweep as it is capable of making attacks in both the left and right fields of fire.

When a model makes a Sweep power attack with a weapon capable of making attacks in more than one field of fire, it chooses one field of fire to use. (https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?128259-Sweep-Power-Attacks-and-Weapon-Location-(-)&p=1710927&viewfull=1#post1710927)

Even if granted Circular Vision, Sweep power attacks are still restricted to one of the model's fields of fire, which are independent of its front arc and are defined as set quadrants on the model's base.

SeoNN
10-10-2015, 12:07 PM
A weapon that has a head location (H) or no location (-) satisfies the requirements for Sweep as it is capable of making attacks in both the left and right fields of fire.



A gargantuan must have at least one melee weapon in its left or right field of fire to make a sweep power attack

Guess the fact it can make attack both left and right doesn't mean it IS both left and right. So it is not satisfies, i think

Leonard_Dukes
10-10-2015, 01:24 PM
Guess the fact it can make attack both left and right doesn't mean it IS both left and right. So it is not satisfies, i think

The clause "weapon in its left or right field of fire" can only refer to a weapon that is able to make attacks in the left or right field of fire, for the simple reason that a weapon isn't "in" a field of fire, it's "in" a location (L, R, H, etc).

If you can find any text in the Gargantuans/Colossals books that says "A weapon with a location "L" is [i]in the left field of fire," then I'll concede that you have a good argument. Otherwise, by your interpretation of the rules, there isn't a Colossal/Gargantuan in existence that can make a Sweep power attack.

SeoNN
10-10-2015, 01:31 PM
As for me "Weapons located on a colossal’s left side (L) " is enought but you have strange enought argument to think otherwise.

so, DARKLEGACY, please, come and help us. We need you help!!!

SeoNN
10-10-2015, 01:35 PM
Otherwise, by your interpretation of the rules, there isn't a Colossal/Gargantuan in existence that can make a Sweep power attack.

First, it works for Gargants only. the colossal book has no such wording. Second, didnt see any problem to make sweep by this interpritation coz all gargs before has a melee in R and L

Leo_the_Rat
10-10-2015, 04:41 PM
It still doesn't have any arms. And that is called out specifically in the sweep rules for the Hydra.

Leonard_Dukes
10-10-2015, 04:53 PM
It still doesn't have any arms. And that is called out specifically in the sweep rules for the Hydra.

The phrase "A gargantuan can use its arms to scythe through models within its reach" is descriptive text - fluff, if you will, that has no bearing on the actual rules.

You'll note that no Gargantuan has "arms" listed on its stat card: the Mountain King and Glacier King have "Big Meaty Fists" and "Big Frosty Fists", respectively; the Woldwrath has "Stone Fists"; the Storm Raptor has "Talons" and "Beak" while the Archangel has "Claws" and "Bite"; and the Mammoth has "War Gauntlets" and "Tusks".

Not an "arm" to be found among the lot. Would you argue that none of those models can make a Sweep attack?

Leo_the_Rat
10-10-2015, 05:51 PM
All of the gargantuans you mention do have "arms" in fact all of the weapons mentioned are attached to arms. Fists are part of arms as are talons and claws. War gauntlets go over the forearm and fist, each also part of an arm. As such I do not agree with your basic premise. Since these beasts are using their arms as the basis for a sweep attack I have no problem with them making said attack.

Leonard_Dukes
10-10-2015, 05:55 PM
All of the gargantuans you mention do have "arms" in fact all of the weapons mentioned are attached to arms. Fists are part of arms as are talons and claws. War gauntlets go over the forearm and fist, each also part of an arm. As such I do not agree with your basic premise. Since these beasts are using their arms as the basis for a sweep attack I have no problem with them making said attack.

You're confusing fluff and model appearance with rules.

One has nothing to do with the other, as is evidenced by the fact that the Gargantuans listed above can use their "non-arm" weapons to make a Sweep as well, such as the Archangel's Bite. (https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?157418-Archangel-Sweep-bite)

shady
10-10-2015, 11:09 PM
all i can say is wow we need a Mod or a Press ganger. so the correct way is yes or no????? Cheers

Leonard_Dukes
10-10-2015, 11:13 PM
all i can say is wow we need a Mod or a Press ganger. so the correct way is yes or no????? Cheers

Sorry, we sort of derailed your thread with the side question of whether the Hydra can perform a Sweep attack at all.

Assuming that it can, when you perform a Sweep attack - even with a 360-degree front arc - you must still choose one and only one field of fire in which to make the attack. The fields of fire don't change position with Circular Vision, they are still the originally marked sections on the model's base.

shady
10-11-2015, 03:54 PM
ok thanks to all who posted Cheers