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Vecilias
06-11-2016, 10:51 PM
So I was reading the new MK3 rules PDF with a friend and we noticed something.

Assault no longer says the model ignores the target in melee penalty but ranged attacks state a ranged attack ignores the target in melee defense bonus if the point of origin of the attack is in melee. Does the ranged attack from assault still have chance to hit a random target on miss and does an assaulting model that fails the charge take the full penalty including the +4 defense?

Largi
06-11-2016, 11:00 PM
Pg 65, Target in melee, Paragraph 3.

Vecilias
06-11-2016, 11:13 PM
We already figured that the DEF bonus is ignored from paragraph 3. The problem is that it does not specify if the "I miss so now i hit a random person" is ignored. Which also raises the point of "If i miss you with my assault shot... do i roll to hit myself?"

Largi
06-11-2016, 11:19 PM
You've answered your own question. Its not specified that this rule is ignored, therefore it is not. If you miss, you can hit another target in the fray

solkan
06-12-2016, 12:02 AM
We already figured that the DEF bonus is ignored from paragraph 3. The problem is that it does not specify if the "I miss so now i hit a random person" is ignored. Which also raises the point of "If i miss you with my assault shot... do i roll to hit myself?"

See:

If the target was in range, the attacker must then reroll its attack against another model in that combat and in the attacker’s line of sight, ignoring intervening models.

If you look at the definitions for line of sight, a model attempting to draw line of sight to itself isn't defined. Line of sight is only defined between two different models, not a model and itself.

Borris
06-12-2016, 08:23 AM
So assault does not ignore target in melee penalties.
Shooting at a target in melee with the shooter allows you to ignore melee penalties.
If the shooter misses, and the random target is also in melee with the shooter then per the second phrase the shooter ignores in melee penalties.
Because friendly targets never engage each other, and therefore are never in melee, does that mean friendly fire assault shots that randomize to friendlies suffer all normal shooting penalties (cover, concealment, being engaged but not engaging you)?

solkan
06-12-2016, 12:11 PM
So assault does not ignore target in melee penalties.
Shooting at a target in melee with the shooter allows you to ignore melee penalties.
If the shooter misses, and the random target is also in melee with the shooter then per the second phrase the shooter ignores in melee penalties.
Because friendly targets never engage each other, and therefore are never in melee, does that mean friendly fire assault shots that randomize to friendlies suffer all normal shooting penalties (cover, concealment, being engaged but not engaging you)?

See Example Two:

EXAMPLE 2: Madrak Ironhide, Thornwood Chieftain is in melee with a Cyclops Savage affected by the Defender’s Ward spell. A Troll Impaler aims, targets the Savage with its thrown spear, and is forced to boost its attack roll. The Impaler’s attack roll gains an additional die for boosting the attack roll, gets +2 to the roll for aiming, and suffers the –4 penalty for targeting a model in melee. In addition, the Savage’s DEF against this attack is enhanced due to the spell affecting it.

If the attack misses, the Impaler rerolls the attack, this time targeting Madrak because he is the only other model in the same combat. It still includes the additional die for boosting the attack roll, the +2 for aiming, and the –4 penalty for targeting a model in melee. If Madrak is behind cover in relation to the Impaler, he gains +4 DEF against this attack.

The target specific modifiers (target in melee, cover, etc.) get recalculated (because the target changed) but the attacker specific modifiers don't change because the attacker hasn't changed.

regabond
06-13-2016, 07:17 AM
Also are you allowed to make an assault shot if after your movement you end up engaged by a different model other than your target. Either by coming up short or making it into melee with your target.

Rules for engaged state that you can't make ranged attacks and I'm not seeing where assault or the firing in melee rules ignore that fact.