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View Full Version : How does Cryx deal with Spell Ward / Sacred Ward?



Ephraim
03-26-2017, 05:36 AM
Yesterday, I was playing Asphyxious 3 against a Skorne army. His Warlock was Zaadesh 2 and his army included a unit of Cataphract Centrati with Vorkesh 1. He got them into the middle of the table, issued a shield wall order, and cast Inviolable Resolve on them; because of Vorkesh, they had Sacred Ward. They were ARM 22 and immune to enemy spellcasting. I couldn't hit them with Hex Blast to take down the Inviolable Resolve, I couldn't cast Calamity to debuff their ARM, I couldn't cast Venom on them with a Warwitch Siren to apply continuous corrosion. He also had an Agonizer hiding behind them maintaining Gnawing Pain, so they were actually, effectively, ARM 24.

The scenario was Recon. I ultimately spent way too many resources trying, unsuccessfully, to clear them out of the middle zone. The only thing I can think of is that I should have contained and/or ignored them. Put something threatening in the middle to keep them pinned down, apply and upkeep Cloak of Ash, and devote my resources to dominating or contesting the flags. Would that have been the right choice? Given the constraints, should I just have ignored the Centrati?

npe
03-26-2017, 08:34 AM
Satyxis Blood Witches with a hag is the most direct approach. You get blessed weapons on the approach and when the Hag hits you can follow up with a calamity and move in with your heavy hitters.

Stalkers are also situationally cute. They can jump behind the shield wall and their weapons are blessed.

If you feel like switching casters, Morty2 gives a very compelling solution to lots of spell based arm and def buffs with spell piercer.

Finally regarding the venom, you can use a sacrificial model (remember it has to be in formation) to get your spray onto opponents you wouldn't be able to target otherwise. Scrap thralls are particularly good for this.

Ephraim
03-26-2017, 01:37 PM
Satyxis Blood Witches with a hag is the most direct approach. You get blessed weapons on the approach and when the Hag hits you can follow up with a calamity and move in with your heavy hitters.

Stalkers are also situationally cute. They can jump behind the shield wall and their weapons are blessed.

If you feel like switching casters, Morty2 gives a very compelling solution to lots of spell based arm and def buffs with spell piercer.

Finally regarding the venom, you can use a sacrificial model (remember it has to be in formation) to get your spray onto opponents you wouldn't be able to target otherwise. Scrap thralls are particularly good for this.

Stalkers might have been the right tool in this particular situation. Blood Witches, unfortunately, would have been less useful. The Centrai gain Sacred Ward as a Granted ability from Vorkesh so there was no getting rid of it. I could have gotten rid of the Inviolable Resolve, though.

Your advice about picking a different 'caster is interesting. If I'd realized what his list was capable of and I'd had a different list, I probably would have brought it. I think I'd rather have had Skarre 2 and my own armor skew (at least as much as Cryx can pull it off) rather than Asphyxious 3. More generally, the lesson there might be that I didn't have the right list to deal with what he brought, which should be on my mind when I'm choosing pairings for tournaments.

npe
03-26-2017, 05:23 PM
Stalkers might have been the right tool in this particular situation. Blood Witches, unfortunately, would have been less useful. The Centrai gain Sacred Ward as a Granted ability from Vorkesh so there was no getting rid of it. I could have gotten rid of the Inviolable Resolve, though.


Yeah, with just the inviolable resolve off you wouldn't have hurt them much, even on the charge. Although this is an interesting example of where Witches and Raiders can synergize. Entropic force + dispel followed up by raiders and chain weapons would clean them out quickly.



Your advice about picking a different 'caster is interesting. If I'd realized what his list was capable of and I'd had a different list, I probably would have brought it. I think I'd rather have had Skarre 2 and my own armor skew (at least as much as Cryx can pull it off) rather than Asphyxious 3. More generally, the lesson there might be that I didn't have the right list to deal with what he brought, which should be on my mind when I'm choosing pairings for tournaments.

I think it might be interesting to figure out how to make a gaspy3 list that handles that particular kind of spam. I think the answer may be stalkers (15" threat, although unyielding may not be as useful) combined with raiders.

Prince Raven
03-26-2017, 06:16 PM
Run a Bane Warrior up or use Ragman to apply Dark Shroud.
Deneghra 1's feat ignores Spell/Sacred Ward and Skarre 1's feat is a strong damage buff.
Play a caster with Scything Touch/Feast of Worms.
Run a sacrificial model up and Blood Rain/Venom it.

Spinballwizard
03-27-2017, 08:44 AM
Most of the above, yeah. While Cryx does have a fair number of spell-based debuffs (Cripplying Grasp, Parasite, Mortality, and Curse of Shadows to name a few), they also have a number of static ways to debuff or otherwise deter certain threats.

As mentioned above, friendly-model buffs and static abilities like Dark Shroud are one of the first ways around them. Control tactics are also generally useful against medium-based multi-wound infantry (especially those that want to pack together in Shield Wall). For instance, making them suffer Blind with Gorman's Black Oil grenade, or using Goreshade3's feat to make them stationary (preventing them from using Shield Wall on their next turn). Using terrain or other abilities (Deneghra2's feat comes to mind, though that's a pretty strong corner case) or fast models (e.g. Satyxis Raiders) to deny them opportunities to contest zones are all valid tactics as well.

Often times, the weakness of units like Cetrati is that they often focus on one specific area of the board, but are vulnerable to a mobile army. In the case of Asphyxious3, you can use Mobility to position your 'jacks in such a way that they can go around the wall of Cetrati, possibly attacking them from the back arc or taking care of the rest of your opponent's army. (In particular, getting rid of the Tyrant Commander that's likely following them might help out too.)

Ignoring them is also a valid tactic, but you have to make sure you still keep them in check somewhere by making them deal with something every turn. It's tricky and you have to make sure they don't accidentally get close to something you care about. I'd proceed with caution here.

Spinballwizard
03-27-2017, 10:48 AM
Also, with respect to the Siren problem you mentioned... don't forget that you can target either your own model as mentioned already or another model in her LOS (for instance, a heavy warbeast behind them) with the Venom spell; even if a model cannot be targeted by the spell, it can still be hit by it if it happens to be under the spray template, but only one model is actually targeted. (Remember, the target doesn't have to be under the spray!)

Ephraim
03-31-2017, 01:37 PM
I played another game last night against a different Skorne army that was also running a full unit of Cataphract Centrati with Vorkesh 1. I posted a battle report (https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?271001-Deneghra-1-(Cryx)-vs-Hexeris-1-(Skorne)) about it but the takeaway was this: I fared a little better against the Centrati but not markedly so. Despite actually being able to direct attacks against them, I failed to do so in a way that actually eliminated the problem. Next time I see them, I'll make sure that getting rid of Vorkesh himself is a higher priority, if I want to fight with the Centrati; or I'll find some way to contain them without killing them if necessary. (I was playing Ghost Fleet, so masses of Deathbound Revenant Crew or setting them on fire with Blackbane's Ghost Raiders were both possibilities.)