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Arigeta
09-15-2010, 06:21 AM
I need a little guidance. I checked the WM book on pg88 talking about water as I really want to run some gators. I DO NOT WANT TO BE A RULES LAWYER, but I do want to understand the unique options that will come up with the new wrastler.

1) it references "knocked down IN shallow water". Can this be read as "within" or as "completely within".

2) Is there additional damage done as a result of being thrown in water?

3) Do beasts take additional damage as a result?

Any guidance would be great. Thanks everyone.

CallmeGene
09-15-2010, 06:29 AM
1) Completely within.
2) Not that I am aware of as you are hitting the water, not an object that would warrant an additional die.
3) Nope, warjacks do have to have their furnaces restarted though.

Nafael
09-15-2010, 06:29 AM
It's not completely within, it's if you're barely touching it. ...uhh I could of sworn it was touching *goes to check*

Edit: The book says 'knocked down in' And knowing the definition of in... I would say if any portion of the base is 'in' shallow water... it's in.

No additonal damage, the jack is stationary

Beasts are perfectly fine. And superior to jacks in every way apparently.

Also: you've asked a question on the forums here... it's too late friend. It's too late... we're all rules lawyers once we're here. There's no going back.

rydiafan
09-15-2010, 06:53 AM
It's not completely within. if any portion of the base is 'in' shallow water... it's in.

No additonal damage, the jack is stationary

Beasts are perfectly fine.

These points are all correct.

Weaselcreature
09-15-2010, 07:29 AM
These points are all correct.

Yup. To be "in" any terrain feature (rough terrain, forests, water), you only need to be touching the terrain.
As soon as you are touching, and as long as you are touching, you incur all penalties/benefits (eg, when moving out of a forest, you are at 1/2 SPD for the entire time until your base is completely out of the terrain (OK, OK, rules lawyers! :D It's not technically 1/2 SPD, it's movement costs double!)

Ravir
09-15-2010, 08:54 AM
Technically, the jacks aren't made stationary, they're made inert, and you can't shake off "knocked down in water" while inert. You have to have a warrior model move to the jack and forfeit their action to re-light the jack's furnace, and then the jack cannot be activated that turn. Which is why it's always a good idea to throw or slam non-amphibious jacks into water. If it's deep water, they're just gone.

rydiafan
09-15-2010, 08:58 AM
Technically, the jacks aren't made stationary, they're made inert

No. They are made stationary, but it's a special stationary that can only be removed by the method you described.

Page 88, left column, last paragraph, first sentence.

LostBlue
09-15-2010, 10:44 AM
No. They are made stationary, but it's a special stationary that can only be removed by the method you described.

Page 88, left column, last paragraph, first sentence.

It's been awhile since I visited this portion of the forums so I am a bit rusty on the rules, but I don't see anything in the rules that prevents Shake Effect to remove Stationary status of an extinguished furnace.

An extinguished furnace doesn't really have too much effect in the game beyond being a status marker which has several effects when restarted. However, an extinguished furnace doesn't prevent a warjack from activating. What does is Stationary, and then the turn you restart the furnace which the warjack is required to sacrifice its activation the turn it is reactivated per the extinguished furnace rules.

Stationary itself does not have a condition to remove itself. What causes effects to remove stationary are the associated rules to remove the status (usually a time duration of one round per most stationary causing effects). Shake Effect does not care how or what cause Stationary. It just removes the status.

So if you Shake Stationary, the warjack can activate normally with an extinguished furnace as extinguished furnace itself does not prevent the warjack from activating. You would have to stand up normally if you didn't also Shake Knock Down, however.

This could be a rule oversight.

Reference:


Shallow water is rough terrain.

A warjack that is knocked down in shallow water has its
furnace extinguished and is stationary until its furnace is
restarted. A friendly warrior model in base-to-base contact
with the warjack can restart it by forfeiting its action. The
warjack must forfeit its activation and cannot channel spells
the turn it is restarted, but it functions normally next turn.
Even if a warcaster other than its controller restarts it, the
warjack remains part of its original battlegroup. When a
warjack?s furnace is restarted, the warjack automatically
stands up.


Focus: Shake Effects

During your Control Phase after allocating focus, if this model
is knocked down it can spend 1 focus point to stand up.

During your Control Phase after allocating focus, if this
model is stationary it can spend 1 focus point to cause the
stationary status to expire.


Stationary Models

A stationary model cannot activate. A stationary model does
not have a melee range. A stationary model does not engage
other models nor can other models engage a stationary
model. A model is never in melee with a stationary model.
A stationary model cannot advance, make actions, make
attacks, cast spells, use animi, use feats, or give orders.

A melee attack roll against a stationary model automatically
hits. A stationary model has a base DEF of 5.

drugar101
09-15-2010, 10:59 AM
This sentence seems to imply that if stationary goes away while it is has an exhausted furnace it becomes stationary again immediatly:


A warjack that is knocked down in shallow water has its
furnace extinguished and is stationary until its furnace is
restarted

being knocked down in shallow water doesn't make the model stationary it makes its furnace extinguished. The furnace extinguished makes it stationary.

blue loki
09-15-2010, 11:29 AM
Being knocked down in shallow water makes the Warjack Knocked Down and causes its furnace to be extinguished. The Warjack is stationary until the furnace is extinguished. However, the Warjack is not necessarily Knocked Down until the furnace is extinguished.

I read it as:
You can allocate and shake Knock Down from a Warjack in this condition, however the Warjack will remain stationary until the furnace is extinguished.

drugar101
09-15-2010, 11:51 AM
I agree with Blue Loki for what that's worth.

LostBlue
09-15-2010, 12:20 PM
If Shake Effect does not allow you to ignore the conditions set by the effect that normally relieve the model from being Stationary it will never have an effect.

For example:


Critical Freeze - On a critical hit, the model hit becomes stationary for one round unless it has Immunity: Cold.
The for one round part of Critical Freeze is not part of the Stationary rules as Stationary itself does not have any conditions to relieve any model of the status. It is a condition set by Critical Freeze. Shake Effect Stationary bypasses this condition to relieve the model of the Stationary status.

I can buy what drugar101 said above that Stationary is removed than put back on as the furnace is still extinguished, however, there is no similar rule that re-establish a condition once it is removed nor does the extinguished furnace say when to re-establish the Stationary condition if it were to be removed.

As far as I can tell nothing prevents Shake Off Stationary on a warjack with extinguish furnace. The question is really, does Stationary get re-established due to the extinguish furnace? I can see arguments both way for this.

Tarrant
09-15-2010, 12:35 PM
Can you allocate focus to a 'Jack with an extinguished engine (i.e. is the Cortex considered active)? You can't shake the stationary status without focus or some other special rule.

rydiafan
09-15-2010, 12:41 PM
Can you allocate focus to a 'Jack with an extinguished engine (i.e. is the Cortex considered active)?

Yes you can.

KujakuDM
09-15-2010, 02:49 PM
Basically It is stationary with a little thrown in.

You can shake it but if it is still knocked down in the water it becomes stationary again immediately.

vintersbastard
09-15-2010, 03:22 PM
Basically It is stationary with a little thrown in.

You can shake it but if it is still knocked down in the water it becomes stationary again immediately.

Actually, I think the problem is that it's not just that, but the fact that the stationary status is linked to a specific condition, i.e. until the furnace is restarted, which is why it cannot be shaken the normal way. Otherwise, you'd just have to shake both statuses at the same time, which, while expensive, is manageable.

Gwydyon
09-15-2010, 04:31 PM
"Until its furnace is restarted" is the mandatory clause of duration here. All Stationary-causing effects must list a duration because there isn't a standard one in the Stationary rules to fall back on. Nothing about "until its furnace is restarted" means you can't shake the effect to remove it prematurely. You'd have to first spend one focus to shake the knockdown status, otherwise the warjack would still be knocked down in water and the rule for that would immediately invoke itself after shaking Stationary.

meSchnitzel
09-15-2010, 04:36 PM
It is VERY clear in the rules how this works, I don't understand even having a conversation on it past the first answer.

A warjack that is knocked down in shallow water has its
furnace extinguished and is stationary until its furnace is
restarted.

You can not shake the stationary and the knockdown and then continue to use the jack as normal, the furnace has to be restarted to shake the stationary.... that simple.

Shaking the knock down does nothing for you because the furnace is still extinguished, shaking the stationary while knocked down does nothing for you because the furnace is still extinguished.

NOW nothing stops you from shaking either effect, but it is still a waste of time and does nothing for you.

meSchnitzel
09-15-2010, 04:45 PM
"Until its furnace is restarted" is the mandatory clause of duration here. All Stationary-causing effects must list a duration because there isn't a standard one in the Stationary rules to fall back on. Nothing about "until its furnace is restarted" means you can't shake the effect to remove it prematurely.

I disagree, see my post above.


You'd have to first spend one focus to shake the knockdown status, otherwise the warjack would still be knocked down in water and the rule for that would immediately invoke itself after shaking Stationary.

I disagree, see my post above.

meSchnitzel
09-15-2010, 04:50 PM
Being knocked down in shallow water makes the Warjack Knocked Down and causes its furnace to be extinguished. The Warjack is stationary until the furnace is restarted. However, the Warjack is not necessarily Knocked Down until the furnace is restarted.

I read it as:
You can allocate and shake Knock Down from a Warjack in this condition, however the Warjack will remain stationary until the furnace is restarted.

Fixed that for ya, you said what i said just well before me :)

Lanz
09-15-2010, 06:03 PM
I don't actually think from the rule interaction that the 'until restarted' clause should make any difference. It states when the effect expires, and that's no different than saying 'for one round', but saying 'for one round' doesn't mean that it's one round regardless and can't be shaken off.

I don't have the rules handy, but what is the exact trigger for the stationary? If its a while-within situation, then yes, it would reapply it without question. Then again, there probably were no rules for water 'appearing' under a knocked down model, so it's possible this interaction has been overlook.

I'd suspect that if there's no clear interaction, Infernals will rule that the warjack is still stationary even if it tries to shake off.

Masanori
09-15-2010, 09:27 PM
I feel this is an important part of the question in whole...
When the model is knocked down in the water...
Would we have to 'stand' the model up 1st before we can restart the furnace?
I mean real world wise I might say yes but...

Dantes
09-15-2010, 09:39 PM
Yes, you need to stand the jack before you restart it, otherwise it is knocked down in the water and the furnace goes back out.

Ravir
09-15-2010, 09:44 PM
I feel this is an important part of the question in whole...
When the model is knocked down in the water...
Would we have to 'stand' the model up 1st before we can restart the furnace?
I mean real world wise I might say yes but...

The warjack automatically stands up and is no longer stationary when a warrior model in B2B forfeits it's action to restart the furnace. However, the warjack must still forfeit its entire activation that turn. I mis-spoke by calling it "inert", it is simply a special kind of stationary that cannot be shaken, because the rule states that it is stationary until the furnace is restarted. Spent a focus to have it shake? Sorry, it's still stationary. Can't light the fire with your brain, gonna take some manual labor.

Gwydyon
09-15-2010, 10:17 PM
So how do you shake stationary off of Sorscha's feat then? It's says it's stationary for one round. So you shake it and it immediately reapplies because the round isn't over? In other words, shaking never works? "Until the furnace is restarted" is only referencing a duration. That's it. It's not some super-secret tech that shuts down shaking.

TheUnknownMercenary
09-15-2010, 10:27 PM
Yes, you need to stand the jack before you restart it, otherwise it is knocked down in the water and the furnace goes back out.

Reread the rules for Shallow water. When a warjack has it's furnace restarted it automatically stands up.

TheUnknownMercenary
09-15-2010, 10:29 PM
So how do you shake stationary off of Sorscha's feat then? It's says it's stationary for one round. So you shake it and it immediately reapplies because the round isn't over? In other words, shaking never works? "Until the furnace is restarted" is only referencing a duration. That's it. It's not some super-secret tech that shuts down shaking.

Even if you could shake off the knockdown and stationary, you still need to restart the furnance. It tells you that right in the rules for Shallow Water.

Gwydyon
09-15-2010, 10:37 PM
I don't see it anywhere in there. Where does it say that it must have the furnace restarted?

If they had intended shaking not to work in this case alone out of all Stationary-causing effects, why not simply state that the warjack goes inert till its furnace is restarted? In Mk1, they did not go Stationary when knocked down in water. Why then would you switch to such a loaded term as Stationary if you didn't intend to use the stuff it was loaded with?

Jaren
09-15-2010, 11:15 PM
I break it down like this:"Furnace Extinguished" is a status on the 'jack. Said status causes "Stationary". Said status is only removed as detailed in the rules for Shallow Water. Shake "Stationary" all you want - the 'jack is still "Furnace Extunguished" and thus "Stationary".

@ Gwydyon: The reason you can shake Sorscha's feat is that ALL it applies is Stationary, which can be shaken. "Furnace Extinguished" is a seperate condition with a seperate solution, i.e. restarted by a warrior model.

Pantorts
09-16-2010, 12:13 AM
How would this interact with the Covenant of Menoth? Would the jack then be able to run around until the Covenant's effect wore off?
Looking at the Covenant's card, it says, "Cannot be made stationary". So a stationary jack would still be stationary, unless you had an effect to remove stationary after you used the Covenant's ability.

Jaren
09-16-2010, 12:29 AM
How would this interact with the Covenant of Menoth? Would the jack then be able to run around until the Covenant's effect wore off?
Looking at the Covenant's card, it says, "Cannot be made stationary". So a stationary jack would still be stationary, unless you had an effect to remove stationary after you used the Covenant's ability.

No particular interaction since the 'jack would be either a) immune to KD anyhow or b) already Stationary and thus isn't being "made stationary" again.

blue loki
09-16-2010, 06:16 AM
Fixed that for ya, you said what i said just well before me :)

Ha! Thanks, that was a pretty bad mis-type by me.

Tbunny
09-16-2010, 06:45 AM
Wow...after rereading the sections on water and shaking effects...I think the actual rule is unclear. I just ASSUMED that a warrior model MUST restart it. I can't find anywhere in the book about Furnace extinguished other than in the water section. It's not listed as a status effect. Was it left out? It does say as we all know that a warrior can, but not must...and nowhere in the warjack section does it expound on starting or restarting a warjack. p 80 on 'Jack Marshalling talks of reactivating an inert 'jack....It also doesn't say that a jack can't operate with an extinguished furnace. I believe that some errata on Furnace extinguished needs to be added. Until that time, I'm happy to play as I have been and restart the furnace to use the 'jack.

meSchnitzel
09-16-2010, 10:28 AM
PG. 88



Shallow water is rough terrain.
A warjack that is knocked down in shallow water has its
furnace extinguished and is stationary until its furnace is
restarted. A friendly warrior model in base-to-base contact
with the warjack can restart it by forfeiting its action. The
warjack must forfeit its activation and cannot channel spells
the turn it is restarted, but it functions normally next turn.
Even if a warcaster other than its controller restarts it, the
warjack remains part of its original battlegroup. When a
warjack’s furnace is restarted, the warjack automatically
stands up.

Straight out of the Prime MKII book. These are all the rules you need for shallow water and extinguished furnaces.

How is this unclear?!?!?!?!

Dino-Czar
09-16-2010, 11:14 AM
How is this unclear?!?!?!?!

Chill.

The problem is that "until it's furnace is restarted" is a discrete unit of time akin to "for one round". If you can shake stationary before the "for one round" time period has elapsed why can you not shake off before the "until it's furnace is restarted" time period has elapsed.

I agree that the intent of the rule is the prevention of shake off, but the question is valid.

meSchnitzel
09-16-2010, 11:43 AM
The question is not valid, actually.

"Stationary for one round" is how the other abilities are worded, not "Stationary until one round has passed."

That is the biggest difference.

The furnace extinguished is a unique parameter for the specific situation. "Until" being the key to understanding this rule.

Dino-Czar
09-16-2010, 11:57 AM
If you can find anything indicating that the word "until" has a significant meaning in the Warmachine rules you will have settled the argument. But I doubt you can. More likely you'll find that the distinction you're trying to draw is a quirk of natural language. The phrase "Stationary until one round has passed" is awkward and would largely be considered synonymous with "Stationary for one round". Meanwhile trying to relate the concepts of restarting the furnace and the stationary status of the jack is difficult if not impossible without the word "until".

This isn't nearly as clear cut as you'd like to think and asking the question doesn't hurt anything.

Mod_Redphantasm
09-16-2010, 11:57 AM
You can shake the stationary as often as you like, but because the warjacks furnace has not been restarted, it just gains stationary again.

Abigore
09-16-2010, 11:59 AM
The question is not valid, actually.

"Stationary for one round" is how the other abilities are worded, not "Stationary until one round has passed."

That is the biggest difference.

The furnace extinguished is a unique parameter for the specific situation. "Until" being the key to understanding this rule.

This.
One stationary effect has a very specific contingency.
This whole dispute just seems ridiculous to me. Basically people are mentioning the shaking stationary effects all the while
ignoring a very simple sentence "A warjack that is knocked down in shallow water has its furnace extinguished and is stationary until its furnace is
restarted." Are people just stopping at the word stationary and not bothering to read the rest of the sentence?
Does PP really need to add "this status cannot be shaked" to make it even MORE clear... and redundant?

silverpuppy
09-16-2010, 12:02 PM
Wow really? this is in question? impressive i really must say. rule lawyering FTL. this is a simple plea for a infernal to come in and end this before someone i play with actually thinks you can not have a jack knocked down in water and be extinguished!

Dino-Czar
09-16-2010, 12:03 PM
You can shake the stationary as often as you like, but because the warjacks furnace has not been restarted, it just gains stationary again.

Having your furnace out doesn't cause Stationary. By the rules "furnace" doesn't actually mean anything and doesn't appear in the index. Everything in this thread is speculation about a half finished rule.

Abigore
09-16-2010, 12:15 PM
Having your furnace out doesn't cause Stationary. By the rules "furnace" doesn't actually mean anything and doesn't appear in the index. Everything in this thread is speculation about a half finished rule.

I'd say that having your furnance extinguished does mean something actually. It means you are stationary until it's restarted.

meSchnitzel
09-16-2010, 12:16 PM
I'd say that having your furnance does mean something actually. It means you are stationary until it's restarted.

This. Agreed 100%

Creaux
09-16-2010, 12:18 PM
Fluff does not equal rules. As Dino stated, "furnace" is meaningless in terms of the rules, except for being a method of removing this particular stationary status. There is no clause saying that this is the exclusive method for shaking this particular incarnation of stationary. Therefore, as long as you can remove the knocked down that caused the situation, and as long as you can remove the stationary, then the 'jack is free to go.


This. Agreed 100%

Give the logic, not intuitive feelings or opinions on how we all agree the rule is intended to work.

Quick aside, it's amusing to me that there is only one amphibious 'jack that isn't already immune to knockdown.

drugar101
09-16-2010, 12:18 PM
Chill.

The problem is that "until it's furnace is restarted" is a discrete unit of time akin to "for one round". If you can shake stationary before the "for one round" time period has elapsed why can you not shake off before the "until it's furnace is restarted" time period has elapsed.

I agree that the intent of the rule is the prevention of shake off, but the question is valid.

This is wrong.

Its not a discrete amount of time. Its a condition until an action is taken. If nothing ever restarts the furnace it is stationary for an infinite amounts of time.

Creaux
09-16-2010, 12:26 PM
This is wrong.

Its not a discrete amount of time. Its a condition until an action is taken. If nothing ever restarts the furnace it is stationary for an infinite amounts of time.

Half true!

However, shake effects says that the stationary status expires when you pay the cost. The "until its furnace is restarted" is NOT "while its furnace is not restarted." One of these wordings is an ongoing contingency, continuously applying the effect. The former tells us when to stop applying the effect.

We have two different things telling us when to stop applying the effect. Therefore, either of these things is...capable of stopping the application of the effect.

Dino-Czar
09-16-2010, 12:28 PM
If nothing ever restarts the furnace it is stationary for an infinite amounts of time.

If you could back that up we wouldn't be having this conversation. Show me anywhere it says "A model may not shake off stationary cause by it's furnace being extinguished". Because I'll site the page where is says I can shake off stationary. (Prime, 73)


edit: if you can show me where it says that being stationary is in anyway contingent to having your furnace out I'd accept that too.

Abigore
09-16-2010, 12:30 PM
There is no clause saying that this is the exclusive method for shaking this particular incarnation of stationary.

It says very until clearly "until its furnance is restarted." Anytime the word until is used in any rules it's setting a condition that needs to be met.

Tsaimath
09-16-2010, 12:33 PM
This is wrong.

Its not a discrete amount of time. Its a condition until an action is taken. If nothing ever restarts the furnace it is stationary for an infinite amounts of time.

Wait, discrete means it between point one on the time-axis and between point two on the time-axis (atleast if I remember my maths prof correct). So it is discrete.
But Extingusied Furnance is not a status or an cont. effect, it is fluff. And fluff =| rules.

Dino-Czar
09-16-2010, 12:35 PM
Wait, discrete means it between point one on the time-axis and between point two on the time-axis (atleast if I remember my maths prof correct). So it is discrete.


You're right, but I wasn't going argue anything not related to the rules. Down that path lies madness.

Creaux
09-16-2010, 12:39 PM
For that matter, this is a good thing, y'hear? This means you can actually use water terrain without COMPLETELY SCREWING Warmachine. 2 focus is still very expensive, and means that, at best, the 'jack will have a 1-focus turn with awkward facing.

"Until" does not clearly prohibit other methods of removing the effect. It just gives the primary duration. If my dad says I have to stay in the corner until dinner, but then comes back and says I can come out early, does this mean that, legally, I have to stay in the corner regardless? Sorry for the metaphor, but I want to get at your logic.

TrollSlayer
09-16-2010, 12:52 PM
Praise be I don't have to play with some of you people. The Rules spell it out clearly and have been stated several times already. Some people just want to be pig-headed about it so that they can avoid the whole knock down in water situation.

Your furnace is extinguished when you are knocked down in water.

You are made stationary.

Until a warrior model comes into base-to base contact and restarts the furnace.

At which point the jack stands up but cannot activate until next turn.

This is the only way to fix an extinguished furnace as stated in the Rules. Any further arguing over this is pointless to the point of foolishness. Gators drown jacks, get over it. I also apologize to the poor fellow who started this post, he probably didn't mean for this to get so out of hand. Some people just want to argue for arguments sake, and even when they are wrong will say they are right. (Yes there are really people like that. I have a brother...)

meSchnitzel
09-16-2010, 01:03 PM
So by your understanding of the rules "Until" doesnt count for anything?

"On a hit, move the
thrown model from its current location directly toward the
other model?s base until it contacts the target."

"Units with Combined Melee Attack ignore the rule
that one trooper?s combat action cannot begin until the
previous model?s combat action ends."

"A knocked down model can stand up at the start of its
next activation unless it was knocked down during its
controller?s turn; in that case it cannot stand up until its
controller?s next turn even if it has not yet activated this
turn."

Each continuous effect:
"each turn to the affected
model during its controller?s Maintenance Phase until it
expires."

For not being an actual rule it sure is in the book in a lot of important places. In this case it is in the shallow water rules, stating a specific requirement for the model to be able to shake the stationary effect.

Dino-Czar
09-16-2010, 01:04 PM
Praise be I don't have to know people who simply decide how a thing ought to be and never examine it for flaws.

Nothing says "Furnace out means you cannot shake stationary".
Nothing says "Furnace out means you are stationary".

I think we all agree that is what was meant, but that isn't what was said. Now that the shallow water terrain is going to be more common more players are going to be asking what the rule means. Clarifying it for them isn't onerous, it is necessary.


edit: meSchitzel, I have no idea what your post was intended to mean. Or the one below this one, for that matter.

meSchnitzel
09-16-2010, 01:05 PM
For that matter, this is a good thing, y'hear? This means you can actually use water terrain without COMPLETELY SCREWING Warmachine. 2 focus is still very expensive, and means that, at best, the 'jack will have a 1-focus turn with awkward facing.

"Until" does not clearly prohibit other methods of removing the effect. It just gives the primary duration. If my dad says I have to stay in the corner until dinner, but then comes back and says I can come out early, does this mean that, legally, I have to stay in the corner regardless? Sorry for the metaphor, but I want to get at your logic.

If you have rules like in your house then I hope that your dad put you in the corner because your furnace was extinguished and he better be a warrior model ready to forfeit his action in order to restart it and get you out of the corner.

meSchnitzel
09-16-2010, 01:07 PM
Praise be I don't have to know people who simply decide how a thing ought to be and never examine it for flaws.

Nothing says "Furnace out means you cannot shake stationary".
Nothing says "Furnace out means you are stationary".

I think we all agree that is what was meant, but that isn't what was said. Now that the shallow water terrain is going to be more common more players are going to be asking what the rule means. Clarifying it for them isn't onerous, it is necessary.


edit: meSchitzel, I have no idea what your post was intended to mean.

Your posts continue to over look the fact that the rules DOES state:



A warjack that is knocked down in shallow water has its
furnace extinguished and is stationary until its furnace is
restarted. A friendly warrior model in base-to-base contact
with the warjack can restart it by forfeiting its action. The
warjack must forfeit its activation and cannot channel spells
the turn it is restarted, but it functions normally next turn.
Even if a warcaster other than its controller restarts it, the
warjack remains part of its original battlegroup. When a
warjack’s furnace is restarted, the warjack automatically
stands up.

Not Dice
09-16-2010, 01:23 PM
I am closing this thread because the behavior contained within is getting out of hand. If you can't handle a reasoned, level-headed debate, you should reconsider getting involved in contentious discussions.

This issue is not yet resolved by an Infernal, but it will stay closed until they have time to review it.