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wargolem
10-17-2010, 10:00 PM
Played my second game of warmachine, and although i won i was surprised when on turn one the guy i was playing against threw one of his heavy jacks with another of his heavy jacks and then used a focus to move.... is this legal?

Vecilias
10-17-2010, 11:04 PM
Well the part where he threw His own jack was legal.
But the part were he spent focus to move was not legal. When a model gets thrown they then get knocked down. If a Model is Knocked down during its controlling players turn then it can not activate.*
Tho keep in mind the new Blindwater can actully get around this rule with the Wrastlers animus

*Im not sure if it is speciffically "Can not active" but I atleast do know that it makes the whole "throw your own warjack for further range" redundent.

TheUnknownMercenary
10-17-2010, 11:05 PM
No it is not. It sounds like he used the shake effects rules the only problem is that shake effects can only be used during the Contorl Phase and that player used it in during the Activation Phase.

TheUnknownMercenary
10-17-2010, 11:17 PM
Well the part where he threw His own jack was legal.
But the part were he spent focus to move was not legal. When a model gets thrown they then get knocked down. If a Model is Knocked down during its controlling players turn then it can not activate.*
Tho keep in mind the new Blindwater can actully get around this rule with the Wrastlers animus

*Im not sure if it is speciffically "Can not active" but I atleast do know that it makes the whole "throw your own warjack for further range" redundent.

A model that is knockdown during it's player's turn cannot stand up during that turn, it has to wait til it's player's next turn. It still activates it just cannot do anything because it cannot stand up.
If a model that is thrown cannot be knockdown, it would still have to forfeit movement or action as part of the rules for being thrown.

Malkav13
10-18-2010, 06:10 AM
If he had an effect that stood up his jack, then it could work. However, it sounds as if he did not, so no.

wargolem
10-18-2010, 07:57 AM
so after being thrown the player can not spend a focus to stand his jack up in that same turn ?

Weaselcreature
10-18-2010, 07:59 AM
so after being thrown the player can not spend a focus to stand his jack up in that same turn ?

No, you may not.
The "Shake Off" effect, as previously noted is an ability where a 'jack could spend a focus to stand up, but that happens during the Control Phase.

silverpuppy
10-18-2010, 09:37 AM
To tie into this, if a model is thrown, can it not sac movement or activation to stand up?

Valander
10-18-2010, 09:45 AM
To tie into this, if a model is thrown, can it not sac movement or activation to stand up?
It pretty much has to do one of those if it wants to stand--assuming it has not yet activated that turn--and you don't have a spell or some other effect to stand it up.

TheUnknownMercenary
10-18-2010, 09:51 AM
It pretty much has to do one of those if it wants to stand--assuming it has not yet activated that turn--and you don't have a spell or some other effect to stand it up.

But it cannot stand up in the same turn it was knocked down in.

Valander
10-18-2010, 09:58 AM
But it cannot stand up in the same turn it was knocked down in.
Right. Guess I misread silverpuppy's question.

silverpuppy
10-18-2010, 11:11 AM
to be clear:

A) castigator two hand throws the avatar, the avatar is kd. he cannot sac movement or action when he activates later in that same turn?

B) castigator two hand throws the avatar after the covenant of menoth uses its no knockdown ability. the avatar can now sac movement or action later in the turn when he activates?

talonhawk01
10-18-2010, 11:14 AM
A) Correct.

B) Correct.

Moknim
10-18-2010, 11:15 AM
A) Yes, the Avatar cannot move or act until the next turn.

B) The Avatar does not need to sacrifice anything because he isn't knocked down (if he is in the Books command range).

Dantes
10-18-2010, 11:19 AM
A) Yes, the Avatar cannot move or act until the next turn.

B) The Avatar does not need to sacrifice anything because he isn't knocked down (if he is in the Books command range).

Primal PG54:

"If a thrown model cannot be knocked down it must still forfeit its action or movement if it activates later in a turn in which it was thrown."

petegrrrr
10-18-2010, 11:20 AM
Moknim, the rules state that if you are thown on your own turn, you must sacrifice action or movement even if you cannot be knocked down.

The Avatar was thrown, therefore he must sacrifice movement or action to get up.

silverpuppy
10-18-2010, 11:22 AM
A) Yes, the Avatar cannot move or act until the next turn.

B) The Avatar does not need to sacrifice anything because he isn't knocked down (if he is in the Books command range).

i was under the impression that even if you are immune to kd that you must still sac either move or action if the effect happened during your activation?

answered....

Hjelmen0
10-18-2010, 11:23 AM
And you'd be right in that impression, Silverpuppy.

As mentioned above, a model that cannot be knocked down must still sacrifice it's movement or action if it activates later in the same turn as it is knocked down.

Moknim
10-18-2010, 11:25 AM
And this is why I usually avoid answering rules questions - because I'm usually wrong.

*goes back to lurking*

Hjelmen0
10-18-2010, 11:27 AM
At least you learned something about the rules this way :)

Moknim
10-18-2010, 11:29 AM
At least you learned something about the rules this way :)

That's why I lurk in the first place!

luxionmk2
10-18-2010, 01:03 PM
I miss the nuances of rules interactions and forum posts when I lurk. When I'm actively engaging in discussion, rules seem to stick better in memory for some reason. Rules also stick to your brain better when Infernals publicly correct you or when other forumites reprimand you :D

rydiafan
10-18-2010, 01:15 PM
When you "know" something that is wrong, nobody calls you on it until they know about it. Saying something wrong and getting corrected on it is much better than never finding out you are mistaken.

Malkav13
10-19-2010, 09:49 AM
And as long as you accept correction well, no harm done. I've been wrong plenty of times, but I've been right as well.

wargolem
01-08-2011, 01:22 AM
thanks for all the rules clarifications guys, i saw where they posted the page from primal but does anyone know where to find it in the MKII books?

vintersbastard
01-08-2011, 03:53 AM
thanks for all the rules clarifications guys, i saw where they posted the page from primal but does anyone know where to find it in the MKII books?
The book that was referrenced was Primal Mk II. The page numbers are basically identical for Prime Mk II, at least up to the warbeast rules.
Nonetheless, here you go: p. 54 (for Being Thrown) and p. 73 (for Shaking) of Prime Mk II.

Digestive
01-08-2011, 07:53 AM
As mentioned above, a model that cannot be knocked down must still sacrifice it's movement or action if it activates later in the same turn as it is knocked down.

But his is only when said model was thrown or slammed, right? If e.g. a Trollkin Runeshaper used its tremor attack and say a steady Kriel Warrior was in range, this Kriel Warrior wouldn't be affected at all and could activate normally?

The Captain
01-08-2011, 08:34 AM
But his is only when said model was thrown or slammed, right? If e.g. a Trollkin Runeshaper used its tremor attack and say a steady Kriel Warrior was in range, this Kriel Warrior wouldn't be affected at all and could activate normally?
That's how it works, yes.

wargolem
01-08-2011, 09:22 AM
thx vinter :) im still a newB :)

Hey Captain where is your sig quote from i think i have seen that be4

rydiafan
01-08-2011, 09:31 AM
Hey Captain where is your sig quote from i think i have seen that be4

It's from one of Robert E. Howard's original Conan stories.

Ravir
01-09-2011, 01:24 PM
And you'd be right in that impression, Silverpuppy.

As mentioned above, a model that cannot be knocked down must still sacrifice it's movement or action if it activates later in the same turn as it is knocked down.

Yeah, it's the new MkII "sprained ankle" rule that prevents fireball flying caster attacks. No more Sure Foot'ed pMadrak flying over the heads of tiny men to get a clear charge lane on an enemy warlock. :(

Javaman
01-09-2011, 03:21 PM
Yeah, it's the new MkII "sprained ankle" rule that prevents fireball flying caster attacks. No more Sure Foot'ed pMadrak flying over the heads of tiny men to get a clear charge lane on an enemy warlock. :(


... I miss the Flying, Flaming Trollblood Circus...

wargolem
01-12-2011, 09:47 PM
Just so i am completely clear on this

1) if I successfully throw my own warjack, and it lands within melee range of an enemy target:

a. If it can not be knocked down it has to forfeit it's action OR movement when it activates but it can still attack normally if it forfeits movement or it could move normally if it forfeits its action.

b. If it can be knocked down it will be knocked down and can not use focus to stand up until next turn when the jack can use a focus during the control phase to stand up i.e. "shake off" the knock down effect.

Which brings me to another question what about units that do not get focus how do they stand up?

TheUnknownMercenary
01-12-2011, 10:07 PM
1 A) that is correct because the rules for throws tell you the model still have to sacrifice movement or action.

1 B) that is correct, if a model is knockdown during your turn it cannot stand up during that same turn on it's own.

Units have to sacrifice movement or action to stand up just like all other models in the game. Warcasters, warlocks, warjacks and warbeasts have the special ability of shake effects which allows them to spend focus/fury or be forced to stand up but if they do not use the shake effect then they too have to sacrifice to movement or action to stand.

wargolem
01-12-2011, 10:17 PM
thanks for clearing that up for me i only have 3 real games under my belt and everything else is just me trying to formulate plans in my head. :)