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Tauren
11-10-2010, 08:22 AM
Cavalry charging get a +2 to "charge attack rolls". Heavy Warjacks become cavalry, and benefit from the same rule. "charge attack rolls" are the first attack made by the model? Or all attacks during a turn in which they charged?

A hammersmith charges, the first strike is boosted damage and +2 to the attack roll? or are both of his hammers boosted damage and +2 to attack roll for their initial attack?

rydiafan
11-10-2010, 08:25 AM
The "charge attack roll" is the attack roll of your charge attack. That is, the first melee attack against your charge target after you move at least 3" as part of a charge.

Canadin
11-10-2010, 08:36 AM
What I have been wondering is how it would apply to Ironclad's Tremor.

Would it be +2 against his charge target?
+2 against all targets?
Or no +bonus since tremor does not require a target?

Cloud-Gatherer
11-10-2010, 08:40 AM
What I have been wondering is how it would apply to Ironclad's Tremor.

Would it be +2 against his charge target?
+2 against all targets?
Or no +bonus since tremor does not require a target?

The last one, since Tremor has no target. It is still a melee attack roll, though, so it can be boosted as normal.

jandrese
11-10-2010, 08:40 AM
No bonus because Tremor doesn't target.

rydiafan
11-10-2010, 08:40 AM
Edit: Triple post = double beaten!

vintersbastard
11-10-2010, 09:44 AM
Requiring no target does not mean that it cannot target.


Legal. Every model will "suffer" from the +2 effect.

PS: Using the search function apparently is a lost skill.;)

jandrese
11-10-2010, 10:33 AM
Interesting. This means it's possible to cause any placed template to do a direct hit by simply declaring that you're targeting a model (and assuming you have LOS, in range, yadda yadda)? If you target and miss, can a placed template then deviate? Could it go beyond its normal placement restriction (IE, deviate somewhere not completely within your control area?).

Halfhoot
11-10-2010, 11:31 AM
A "placed" template and a "does not require a target" attack are two different things I would think.

jandrese
11-10-2010, 12:38 PM
I don't really see why. They're both *Attacks. Neither requires a target normally. Both are made with weapons. Tremor is really just a placed template that happens to be centered on the Ironclad itself.

rydiafan
11-10-2010, 01:50 PM
I don't really see why. They're both *Attacks.

Placed templates are *Actions, not *Attacks.

jandrese
11-10-2010, 01:56 PM
Does it even matter though?

Cloud-Gatherer
11-10-2010, 02:22 PM
Does it even matter though?

Yes. The rules aren't built for *Actions to target except in specific cases. How would you determine whether you hit or miss, for example?

That's not really the point, though. You claiming that Tremor is a very specifically-placed template does not make it so; any attempt to extrapolate its rulings out to actual templates is totally erroneous.

marxlives
11-10-2010, 02:35 PM
Well pg. 47 and 48 outline what is possible during a charge. A charge consists of a charge attack constituting initial attacks and a combat action. Pages 48-49 list what a combat action consists of. Now you cant do special actions on a charge but you can use a special attack. Now the iron clad's special attack says it doesn't require a target, not that it cannot have a target. Now that said when you do a charge you declare the charge and the particular target. This said its impossible to charge and not declare a target, but you can charge and use the tremor attack against a target and it still follows all the special rules outlined under tremor. So yes you would get +2 against the affected model, or the model you charged. Then the other rules for tremor follow up on that.

Canadin
11-10-2010, 09:08 PM
I've always found the line "does not require a target" to be hard to understand.

But I would very much like to reason that like a "Thresher" attack, Ironclad could get charge bonuses VS his charge target.

Northern Ronin
11-10-2010, 09:58 PM
I've always found the line "does not require a target" to be hard to understand.

But I would very much like to reason that like a "Thresher" attack, Ironclad could get charge bonuses VS his charge target.

His attack isn't targeting something, thus no target to get a bonus from. The only reason it can even use it during a charge, is due to a special allowance in that rule. Your 'target' stops mattering after the charge is made, before the Tremor. Thresher is still an attack.

vintersbastard
11-11-2010, 01:28 AM
His attack isn't targeting something, thus no target to get a bonus from.

Please read the ruling from Macallan that I quoted in post #7. Tremor can target.


I've always found the line "does not require a target" to be hard to understand.

This part allows the Ironclad to make a Tremor attack even though there is no model in its melee range. (Melee attacks in general have to target, and cannot be done without one in range.)
Rather important considering that Ironclads don't have Reach.

Nion
11-12-2010, 02:08 PM
On a similar note, does this mean that if an Ironclad charges something from behind, the Tremor benefits from the backstrike bonus? Or is there a wording difference?

vintersbastard
11-12-2010, 04:45 PM
On a similar note, does this mean that if an Ironclad charges something from behind, the Tremor benefits from the backstrike bonus?

Yes, that would be correct.
Nonetheless, it would have been nice to ask this question in a new thread, to help with the search function.